This has always been a question for me. I have been in a couple passes now and followed quite a number as well. I also have done many trades. When doing these things value for value plays a part.

So my question comes to you all. How do you determine trade value??

I usually go off of MSRP for NC's. However, some states have taxes that can drive the price up to double MSRP.

For CC's there is no MSRP. At some sites you can get great deals, at others they are overly priced. There is no real standard by which to go by.

Now you all might be saying who cares, it's the spirit of giving that counts. And while I believe that wholeheartedly, it is a factor when doing trades, MAW, TAW, etc. I would appreciate it greatly to know how you BOTL's determine such things, or even if it matters to you.
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I look at things under a few criteria.

MSRP if it applies.

Then Rarity of the Cigar. Like once a year releases

Then age of the cigar. A 99 opus is not the same as an 08 hemmingway.

Then origin of the cigar comes into play. Sure you can get deals where Cubans will cost less than $1 a stick but be honest. what is it worth to you? if you say not much consider a different choice.

My #1 rule when i sign onto a pass You ask the Pass host if your puts/takes are up to par BEFORE SHIPPING!!!!. Same with trades.
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It's the unspoken underlying issue that touches the "accountant" that lives to some varying extent inside all of us. Each of us knows what we know. Over time we learn more. Different levels of knowledge and access differences create huge variances in "value" and what is actually paid for certain things. The vast majority of times you see members actions in trades, PIF's etc in the light of "pay it forward". It's just the brotherly way. We leave things better than we find them. Occasionally you see otherwise. Many times it's a case of just not knowing. Rarely, it's something else and it gets worked out one way or another. Best advice is, when in doubt ask and when there is no doubt, take note.

It's also important to understand that many things change radically in price over time in both directions. There are cigars that cost $ 140 a box, 9 months ago that are $ 75 today. It's also a weird period of time with the 60-70 percent sale stuff. Has not really happened in the past and unless another big distributor goes belly up, won't happen again.
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Generally I dont look at MSRP for NC. Instead I use average chimp and current CI/famous/JR/etc prices to determine value. MSRP is dangerous. No one on the board pays MSRP so value should be what people pay. Rare cigars, extremely hard to find, etc, all have more true value. Finally, the final check, ask yourself "would I feel screwed". If you feel you would be satisfied, then you should be good.
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Pretty much sums up 95%+ of what I have seen. I don't worry about "equal value", I try to make the next guy in the pass or Pif smile. :-)
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If it is a 'equal value' trade only the price you paid for the cigars is important. If it is a 'I send you some cigars and you send me some cigars' trade to make someone else smoke cigars they never had it is about the thought instead of the value. Just remember, not everybody has the same budget, a 10$ cigar can be another man's $1 yardgar.
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I agree with you on making the next guy smile. And I feel it's always best to be the more generous member.

I pay MSRP at a few shops I go to. As do many other BOTL's that I know of.

One issue for me is let's say I got a $10 cigar at $5 on a discount. Does that now mean it's trade value is $5?

On the opposite side of the coin, if I paid $20 for a $10 because of taxes, does that now make it's trade value $20?
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I agree somewhat with that statement. But it can't always be that way. I mean if it was, by the end of the pass everyone would be PIF'ing 1942's or the like. So does it fall on someone to be the degrader?? That's why being close to value helps in these PIF's, trades, etc. One on One trading I can understand being the most generous, but the way the PIF, MAW, and TAW threads are set up it is best to get close to value.
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I think DK sums up the spirit..leave it better than it came...and the value..there is an accountant in all of us..

Well expressed.
Youse other guys stated well also...
I simply don't have original ideas and use others ideas

hahahahaha

Tom
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:-) Well said and exactly how I trade!!
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Anyone else have an opinion on the matter??
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Was there anyone opinion in particular you were looking for? There are tons of great thoughts above IMO :-)

I will have to say I agree with all the guys above.
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I have some Gurkhas to trade ya. :-)
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IMO, and maybe I am wrong, the point of PIFs and Passes are to hook someone else up not yourself... If you looking to get even or worst, to get over, stick to the WTS and retail section...
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Over a long enough timeline evererything tends to balance itself out. Excessive givers get theirs in the long run either in cigars or from karmically fulfilling acts. Excessive takers the opposite is true.
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My :-) is no and no.

Way to much work and stress to figure this all out.

You got a deal good for you. I'm not going to say to you, "hey Wayne I know you got that on sale for 50% off so send two".
You pay higher taxes, oh well. I don't know tax rates in each state and really don't care to. (What is the tax rate in NJ? :-) )

A trade to me is agreed upon before cigars are in transit. Both sides feel it is a good trade or no trade happens.

As for a pass, that's a little harder. 99.999999% of the people here will make an honest effort to be close in their takes and putts. The ones that don't won't last long anyway.

This is supposed to be fun not work as far as I'm concerned.
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That pretty much sums up my feelings.
I remember my jaw droppping a few years ago when I did my first blind trades and pifs. I couldn't believe what had arrived at my house from someone I never met and interacted with solely on a cigar forum, and really make an effort to take care of recipients when I am involved in a pif or trade in hopes of keeping the brotherly spirit alive.
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My thought is - By the time you figure up all the pricing and then digging around to make sure you have an EQUAL trade value, the FUN part of the pass or trade has been taken. When it becomes WORK the fun is lost.

I agree that going above and really PIF is the way to go.

And, if you don't like it, don't play. Simple as that. :-)
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I think how you interact with trading and PIF's is only something you can determine. I have boxes that I have paid 3x more than recent sales. I have also paid crazy California taxes for singles. I always try to balance things, but in the end its all about PIFing so by giving more I am ahead in the long run. :-)
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Wayne, as a newb I still get relatively anxious about my put/take values in passes. As others have said, I always PIF by putting more than I take, but I still hold my breath in hope that someone doesn't question the value-for-value end of my takes.

Here's what I do:

I use something close to single-stick MSRP as a benchmark of value. I think that's a fair way to do it because the pass is about single stick trades. I take it from the perspective of "what would this cigar I am taking cost me if I was going down to the B&M and buying one today?" To me, passes are about trying new cigars, and when I try a new cigar I buy a few singles or a sampler first--not an entire box from an on-line retailer.

My B&M lists their prices on-line, and I also use the Top25 database which usually lists the MSRP & "average price paid." I'll also compare those prices to CI or other on-line sites, but it's still on a single stick (or small quantity) basis. I try to get the value close, and always err on the conservative side. I don't take vintage or hard-to-find cigars because I don't have anything to replace those with; the same for CC's.

I've participated in a number of passes this past year and run one, and they've all worked out okay using this method. At least, no one has complained. :-)
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