And if you really think that there's only one or two games to point to, then I can't help you.
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Ya know, another BIG positive for Phillip Rivers these days is that he's grown up immensely over the last few years. I don't see the big baby, throwing tantrums, 10-year-old pouty face, kicking stuff on the sidelines, yelling at players and coaches like I used to see.
All that lack of composure held him back. It used to be I couldn't even stand to listen to him after the games because he was so full of himself. He's really, truly changed and done a 180.
I guess what I'm saying is that it's Phillip River's fault all that talent was wasted for all those years when he had an excellent supporting cast. Now he's got an iffy-ish supporting cast and he's doing well.
If the Chargers make some more moves this off-season, they have a huge opportunity to exploit Phillip Rivers at the pinnacle of his career. I hope they get it done. :-)

And believe it or not, I thought of him this way before he carved up the Ravens last night and did me and my Steelers a HUGE solid. :-)
Now it's up to the Steelers to hang on to this early Christmas present. :-)
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Vic, Ben has become such an incredibly efficient quarterback in the air over the last four years that a team who has been a running juggernaut forever has completely abandoned that style of play and turned into a passing offense.
That's something I never thought I'd see in my entire life. Something I never even wanted to see, but it's worked fabulously.
Since committing to the passing game these last four years, the team is 43-21, has been in the playoffs 3 times, the Super Bowl twice, and took a ring.

In 2005 when they won Super Bowl XL the team was 5th in the league in rushing yards, 24th in passing yards. A running team.
They started transtioning in '06-'07 and suffered the growing pains because of it.
By 2008 when they won Super Bowl XLIII they had moved to 17th in the league in passing and 23rd in rushing.
This year they are 8th in passing, 17th in rushing.
See the trend? :-)

I figure you were being tongue in cheek when you said no one ooo's and aaaaaahhh's at Ben's arm, or he hasn't won games with his arm. He's literally been a highlight reel all season, even during these past weeks while his thumb has been broken, his efficiency is through the roof (I think he had a 126.0 passer rating last week.)
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Dude, he is no Peyton Manning, but he does make great throws. Who is throwing to Wallace?
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You were saying Scott? were you finished? Well, allow me to retort (said in my best Samuel Jackson voice):

:-)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=311219025

Look, I get some of you guys drink the Big Ben Kool aid. I don't. I watch the guy play and I see a second tier Qb that NOBODY would talk about if he played for the Arizona Cardinals.:-)
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I'll see your poor outing on the road against one of the best teams in the NFC in a game in which most quarterbacks wouldn't have bothered suiting up and raise you this, this, this or this. Point is, every quarterback has a turd from time to time. It happens.
I have no dog in this fight whatsoever. My question to you is, if he's such a second tier quarterback, why do his splits stack up against the most elite quarterbacks in the NFL today? How have the Steelers made it to three Super Bowls (winning two) with a second tier quarterback? They don't make it through the playoffs in 2005 without Roethlisberger (regardless of how he played once they got there), they don't beat Arizona in the Super Bowl without that final drive (unless you don't remember Warner going up and down the field on that Steelers defense in the 2nd half) and they don't even get past Baltimore this past season in the Divional game after their defense put them in a 14 point halftime hole. Sorry Resipsa, I don't know how many examples you need to see of a guy putting a team on his back before you concede that he's asked (and expected) to do much, much more than, "not lose the game."
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I definately :-)'d on that Sam reference, Thanks Vic. :-)

It was obvious Ben couldn't get downfield consistantly with a broken thumb and ankle after the first eight minutes. (Despite 25/44 and 330 yards in the air, all the niners had to do is keep an extra man in and amp up the pressure to stop him.)
Charlie Batch took all the snaps this week and guys were open all night.
So rather than let Ben take another couple weeks to carry us through the playoffs, the brass sends him out to lose face, lose the game, lose homefield advantage via the Christmas present the Ravens just gave us, etc.
Ben's mobility, which is the one thing everyone points out as his greatest asset, wasn't there. So that somehow makes it sensible to put him out there, injure him further, and ignore a bench qb who's better prepared for the week.
In short, what? :R

I get what you're saying, completely. If we're going to be a passing club with little respect to a running game, I'd rather see another qb in there.
Nobody would be talking about Tom Brady if he played for the Cleveland Browns, though.
I might even agree that Ben would not likely fair well in any other schemes that weren't tailor made to suit his ability, but there's more to that story. Our O-line is patched together, has been for years. Ben is forever molested. His size and strength allow the Steelers to use money in on Defense and save money by not having a left guard, which is a very costly position. We get our guards from couches because we have a whole core of drafted hopefuls that are hurt. (They should pay off next year, hopefully.) So Ben saves money on our whole offensive line. That's money that's spent on receivers and defense. It makes sense and it works.
Fact is, Ben is bought and paid for, has earned the spot, has the rings, has the numbers, and consistantly wins.
It'd be almost as retarded to fix that as it was to hobble him out on the field last night.
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There was this one time, when Steelers played the Colts in the AFC Championship, and Ben stopped the winning TD after the Bettis fumble. :-)
That is why there is so much Hater-aid, from Vic.:-)
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Either that or I really don't think he's a good QB.

OR I hate rapists. Either or.

Take your pick.:-)
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Admittance is the first step to recovery. Good job!:-)
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Try quoting me fully, :-)

I have no problem seperating Little Ben the person from little Ben the player.

He sucks as a person, he sucks as a player. What is there to differentiate, LOL
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I only quoted the relevent parts where you contradict yourself within a week's timeframe.
Look, I get it if you don't like him because of who he is as an individual. But your assertion that he's nothing more than a game manager simply doesn't jive with the on-field performace, the stat sheet, or the jewelry.
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So he's a Colts fan? Man, then he really doesn't want to talk about quarterbacks piggy-backing their way to a Super Bowl ring then does he...
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A) youre in serious need of a reading comprehension class

B) not everybody has to think what you do

C) you clearly don't "get" anything since youndontnget the point

D) move on.org. Join it,,it may help you
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O.K. kids. Let's keep this from getting personal.

You guys disagree. We get it.
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I read just fine, thank you. That's how I was able to show you your contradiction.:-)
Agreed. But I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that I've supported my opinion with something more than...My opinion.
I get it just fine. You don't like Ben Roethlisberger.
Hmm, or maybe for future reference, if someone makes a post listing nearly half the starting NFL quarterbacks as being better than Ben Roethlisberger and you respond with:
you shouldn't be surprised when somebody challenges that assertion. You say he sucks as a player and is a game manager, yet you offer up nothing as to why you hold that opinion. I'm not trying to change your mind, but simply asking you on what (tangible) basis is this opinion formulated. Instead I got bupkis.
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:-)
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I think Peyton Manning has a square head. :-)

I still love Vic even though he's a player-hater.


Lastly, there should be a basketful of empirical evidence on Vic's side as these next few weeks roll on. With Ben's foot as big as his ego, we should easily squander any hopes of homefield advantage, expect to be beaten by two more mediocre teams, and send Ben golfing the day after the wildcard game.
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Fixed it for you! Not often you see an NFL QB with his beer gut hanging over his pants:-)
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Wouldn't the opposite be true? If the Steelers win in spite of Roethlisberger not because of him, and if Roethlisberger sucks, why would him not playing at or near 100% matter?:-)
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