Yes, but I think it was a reasonable punishment.
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As you know, I still disagree on the NCAA being involved. But since the NCAA has gotten involved, I don't mind vacating the wins or the 60 million dollar fine.
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What about the other punishments from the NCAA?

-No post season games/bowl games for 4 years.
-Scholarships went from 25-15 for 4 years.
-Students may transfer immediatly and still play.



There are still more punishments to follow this afternoon as well.
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I don't like the scholarships lost or post season ban, but that is probably mostly relating back to me not believing the NCAA should have been involved in the first place. But I think vacating the wins and the fine better punish the proper people, although people that were not involved at all will be affected from any penalty.

This is a terrible situation, if making an example of Penn State works to bring the untouchable status of college football programs down, then good will come out of it. I'm not really too optimistic for that, though. At least not beyond the culture at Penn State.
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Am I the only one who doesn't agree with the wins being vacated? I'm not trying to defend Paterno here, but leaving his winning record intact would be a learning opportunity for a lot of young athletes and coaches. It would show for future generations that sports isn't everything. Look at what this guy did on the field, and then look at what he was capable of when no one was looking.
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Totally agree.
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I guess I don't see your reasoning.

That would be like saying that we will let USC remain the national champs although they were paying their players to play for them and their heisman trophy winner that was also paid was a big reason why they won.

Why should they get to keep their wins. Who's to say they would have won without Paterno?

Why should they get to keep awards and records they otherwise maybe wouldn't of gotten without paterno.

Thats like saying, it's ok to cheat and do wrong behind the NCAA's back, you will still get a bowl ring to keep.:-)
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But there was no cheating going on in this case.
Yes, everyone involved are all creeps and douchebags, and they deserved to be punished, but erasing records is just the easy way out, so we won't have to talk about what happened in the future. At most, put an asterisk beside those wins, kinda like Barry Bonds' accomplishments.

I'm not suggesting that the wins stay intact to glorify anyone or to keep anyone's legacy intact. In fact, I'm suggesting keeping the wins in place so that future generations can look back and see that winners on the field aren't always good people. Erasing this is the easy way out.
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In every sense of the word, it was cheating and brings home the lack of institutional control. Covering up child rape because of the fear of the negative publicity and to protect the image of the football program, you are committing far worse infractions than what can be done typically in the recruiting/academic means.
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I see what your getting at but leaving those wins there does nothing but glorify the school, players and coaches.
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Then put an asterisk by those wins.

Should we then take away all of the Giants' wins b/c Barry cheated while playing for them?
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I disagree Andy.
Any win during the time they were covering up for Sandusky,should be and was erased.
Too bad for the players, because they had no knowledge of what was happening.
Joe Paterno had more important things to consider than his record or saving face of the program.It's inhumane,just plain inhumane of all those involved.
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I dunno, it's a gray area.

I could go either way on that one really.
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That's how I feel about the Penn State issue.
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But with Penn state, your talking about something MUCH MUCH bigger with many more people involved.

Not just one bad player.

I probably wouldn't go as far as to take the Giants wins away but I would for sure take bonds out of the record books.

Would they of won without Bonds...........doubt it.

Would Penn St. of won without Paterno...........who's to say?

But your talking about the COACH and many other people that contributed to all the wins, not one good player.
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And many players who had no knowledge of what was going on either.
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It is what it is. Sucks for the players but it's fair IMOP.

Your entitled to your own opinion and I can see that we are not going to agree on this so I will just leave it at that.
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Just catching up but it sounds like you are going both ways if the hole Bonds issue was even remotely involved or related. You say you wouldnt throw out the wins of the Giants even though all those years they cheated, clearly broke the rules of the league but the football players for all those years did not cheat or did nothing wrong / broke no rules. It was the higher ups that covered it up and threw everything under the rug. I do not agree at all with what Penn State did but to punish the players that had nothing to do with it pisses me off a little, and then to go ahead and punish all the future players...hell they should have just given PSU the death penalty and finned them the $60M...IMO
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I'm a life-long PSU/JoePa fan...grew up with it..been to many a game in Happy Valley...that being said, I think what the NCAA did was to send a message, LOUD and CLEAR...protect kids, regardless of any "effect on the program"...stripping the past wins, etc are symbolic gestures, and I think aimed directly at the (former) all-times wins leader, Joe...the bowl ban, scholarship loss and those things are to invoke a culture change....crippling the program will ensure that football is no longer king :-)
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