MedicCook 08:19 AM 04-14-2009
Pirates I am sure will fall into the category of the World Justice System that I have been hearing about.
[Reply]
BC-Axeman 08:25 AM 04-14-2009
Originally Posted by JimmyPeaches:
I just recently gave a report on piracy for my international logistics class and the article that I used highlighted the problems in acting offensively against the pirates.
1. The Gulf of Aden is close to to the distance from Maine to Miami and also several miles wide. No one navy has enough capacity to effectively patrol this area. Yes, there would be enough naval force if countries act in concert, but aerial capability is also needed, not something every navy has. This has been in the works for several years, Pres. Bush started working on this bill and how to incorporate other nations before he left office. Pres. Obama is now currently working on finishing this doctrine.
2. Who is ultimately responsible for prosecuting the pirates? Is the nation that the ship is register in? Is the country of the navy that apprehended the pirates? Is it the country whose waters the pirates were in when they apprehended? So far, no one country on the African coast wishes to partake in the insanity, so often times the pirates are just dropped off on the beach after being detained for awhile. Yes, Kenya did prosecute some pirates and sentence them to 7 year sentences, but Kenya itself does not have the legal or institutional capacity to incarcerate all of the pirates.
3. Why can't the U.S. take over? Transporting pirates to the USA, trying them, and then holding them would put a strain on our national funds for a world problem. Also without capable local governments, practical enforcement is near impossible. In the Straits of Malacca near Malayasia and Indonesia, the pirates were deterred and finally moved on one the local governments stepped enforcements.
4. How does a speedboat stop a cargo ship? Most often the pirates ask for ransoms that are less than the insurance premiums for a one-way passage through the Gulf of Aden. Premiums have risen from $500 to ~$20,000 in very recent years and months. Secondly, many times the pirates are crewed on the ships, so knowingly or unknowing the shipping company has already set themselves up, which is also the reason that weapons are not kept aboard.
Well, that's enough for one post.
Good food for debate! I could easily shoot holes in all these points. No time right now. The last point is the root of the problem. The third point, I seem to remember something about being "tried at sea". ...
[Reply]
beamish 08:51 AM 04-14-2009
hail to the seals..
:-)....I dont see what the problem is the solution is easy,first of all these cargo ships are carrying millions of dollars in cargo,what would be the cost of say 4 or 5 ex military specialists,to take the journey? heavily armed the pirates approach the ship the rpg leans over the side "poof" what pirates someone say pirates...its easy...
[Reply]
Don Fernando 11:21 AM 04-14-2009
Originally Posted by JimmyPeaches:
I just recently gave a report on piracy for my international logistics class and the article that I used highlighted the problems in acting offensively against the pirates.
1. The Gulf of Aden is close to to the distance from Maine to Miami and also several miles wide. No one navy has enough capacity to effectively patrol this area. Yes, there would be enough naval force if countries act in concert, but aerial capability is also needed, not something every navy has. This has been in the works for several years, Pres. Bush started working on this bill and how to incorporate other nations before he left office. Pres. Obama is now currently working on finishing this doctrine.
2. Who is ultimately responsible for prosecuting the pirates? Is the nation that the ship is register in? Is the country of the navy that apprehended the pirates? Is it the country whose waters the pirates were in when they apprehended? So far, no one country on the African coast wishes to partake in the insanity, so often times the pirates are just dropped off on the beach after being detained for awhile. Yes, Kenya did prosecute some pirates and sentence them to 7 year sentences, but Kenya itself does not have the legal or institutional capacity to incarcerate all of the pirates.
on your point one: Europe is sending more ships, the Dutch navy alone will send 6 ships and the Dutch will lead the European operation for the first 6 months (leadership will rotate between all active parties).
On your point two, well, it is international crime so I think the UN should prosecute.
[Reply]
replicant_argent 11:33 AM 04-14-2009
BC-Axeman 12:38 PM 04-14-2009
It's not an international crime.
Each case would be a crime by the pirates against the citizens on the ship, committed on the sovereign soil of the ship's registered country. So in the case of the kidnapped captain, it was as if the pirates came ashore and kidnapped him in Massachusetts and held him there.
Just like an illegal alien robbing a liquor store.
Now if the take the persons they kidnapped ashore it gets complicated.
IANAL, this is just how I have seen it explained.
[Reply]
Don Fernando 01:21 PM 04-14-2009
Open sea is no-man's land, outside the 12 mile zone it is an international crime.
[Reply]
ahc4353 01:22 PM 04-14-2009
Who would know if you just sunk the whole pirate ship?
[Reply]
BamBam 01:38 PM 04-14-2009
Originally Posted by ahc4353:
Who would know if you just sunk the whole pirate ship?
I like how you think Al
[Reply]
dunng 01:55 PM 04-14-2009
Originally Posted by ahc4353:
Who would know if you just sunk the whole pirate ship?
:-) 
:-)
[Reply]
replicant_argent 01:58 PM 04-14-2009
Originally Posted by ahc4353:
Who would know if you just sunk the whole pirate ship?
What pirate ship? There are no pirates....
[Reply]
ahc4353 02:11 PM 04-14-2009
Originally Posted by replicant_argent:
What pirate ship? There are no pirates....
Exactly.
[Reply]
hotreds 02:17 PM 04-14-2009
Footbag 02:23 PM 04-14-2009
Originally Posted by ahc4353:
Who would know if you just sunk the whole pirate ship?
:-)
[Reply]
DPD6030 02:28 PM 04-14-2009
ahc4353 02:32 PM 04-14-2009
s15driftking 02:34 PM 04-14-2009
BC-Axeman 03:49 PM 04-14-2009
Originally Posted by Don Fernando:
Open sea is no-man's land, outside the 12 mile zone it is an international crime.
I was led to believe the ship itself is sovereign territory.
Then since there is no international police force to deal with it, anyone can do anything, anytime?
My house is not federal territory, kidnapping is a federal crime. I can defend myself and my house without help from any federal authority, since self defense is a God-given right. I would think anyone has the right to self defense anywhere, especially on a ship in international waters where nobody else can decide what to do.
I wonder if there is any money to be made in independent pirate hunting.
[Reply]
macpappy 04:08 PM 04-14-2009
The ships are not armed because there are regulations in just about every country prohibiting the vessels from carrying firearms.
The problem with someone outfitting a ship as a "privateer" (that used to be the term used for vessels sailing under say, the Spanish flag, and hunting down vessels of another country) is that you would become a bigger target than the pirates.
[Reply]
icehog3 05:05 PM 04-14-2009
Originally Posted by ahc4353:
Al for President?
As soon as I move to Canada.
:-) :-)
[Reply]
