I think everyone here has been pretty supportive, Kegan, and I hope that is just the pain talking and that you really don't think that the FOGs are callous just because some may have more life experience than you do.
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Naturally you are cooler online for Pete's sake lol; Florida's hotter than the place RevSmoke talks about :-)

Reverend, all I know is I read them somewhere, or maybe learned them in school. Info has changed through the years I know; I'm just quoting what I recall.

Sir, I meant that solely as a joke; I basically just mean that those with life experience have indeed weathered storms of life, and they have learned to build their castles on a bed of rock instead of on the sand - some indeed are castles themselves.

(Luke 6:47 - 49; Matthew 7:twenty-four - 27)

I suppose I could break it down if religion were my course of action;

"Let thy heart be not solely chiseled of stone, nor constructed as a child's castle of sand." Both of these items, rock and sand, can be seen as artistic elements that can help convey the God-given beauty of life through their proper usage, be it a sand castle or a marble/stone statue.

In secular terms, put grains sand on one end of a brass balance scale, and rocks on the other. When you have a perfect balance, you should feel better and all will be well.

Callouses are a good thing, shows determination and being thick-skinned and all, but people do need to be open as well, I understand this. And again, no, I meant no harm in my words; I use the word callous as 'hard,' not in a negative sense of the term.

-shrugs- I don't know, just thought it worked :-) and again, no harm intended in my words :-).
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Walk away, bro. Too many "red flags" with this girl.
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Oh no no no, maybe I misspoke somewhere. We won't be dating. I'm going to message her when we're both in higher spirits, and see that my things are mailed out. I emailed the company I bought the picture frame from, but if they can't cancel the order, I'll just keep it, gift it or something.

Lessons learned are often the hardest, but that's life. You take a shot in the dark and hope and pray that bullet goes where it's intended.
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Kegan,

I am not talking about what you do in regard to the items you want to mail out.

I was speaking of your dating future and intimacy. That is all.

Two thinkgs that went into my previous post.

1) My work as a police chaplain and the number of suicides I have had to "pick-up-the-pieces" on.

2) My work with couples and individuals in regard to dating/marriage, the intimacy, factor that is or isn't there, and amzingly, with the police, internet fraud and perversion in dating.

I don't know that your heart is any bigger, or us FOGs have smaller ones (or colder ones). It might simply be an issue of naivete.
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Keegan- you asked for advice. You got it- pretty much we are of one voice that you need to let these people go. Your attempting to change our minds is not going to work. If you are trying to convince yourself to keep interacting with these people maybe that, too, should be a red flag.

Our advice is free and worth as much. Understand it comes from folks who have lived life for a little longer than you. The old saying is: "If I only knew at 25 what I know at 60." So, again, remove these people from your life- you'll be better off. If you don't want to do this, no amount of cajoling will convince us otherwise. Do what you want, but our advice stands.

Good luck to you.
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To RevSmoke:

Sir, I know you weren't speaking of the picture frame, that was simply something I was going to do out of kindness, as I said. On second thought, as much as I care for my friends, all of them, money doesn't need to be involved.

I fully realize the intelligence and understanding of the ones before me, and your advice is sound and true.

Obviously, I had no idea of your working background, or your knowledge in the field. Perhaps time has clouded my memory as to the percentage - I just looked on Wikipedia, and was informed suicide leaves at least six survivors...can't find the numbers I quoted though.

I explained above, that my usage of the term 'callous' was not meant in a negative sense. When I think of the term, I think hard, so yes, someone who is callous could be seen as "hard-hearted;" and while that is usually seen as a bad trait, when a person has been hurt or 'burned' in life, and they learn a lesson, sometimes having a 'hard-heart' is a good thing, similar to being "thick-skinned." Does that approach sound a bit more rational?

As I said, I mean no harm in anything I say or have said. I didn't mean any of you were cold, cruel people - far from it, I know. I meant that life experience has toughened you all up, given you callouses borne of hard work and determination to get to where you are today, or what you might have accomplished in earlier times.

In regards to me having a big heart, I didn't mean to infer that mine was any larger, or that I was any kinder than the next person on the board. The soft-heart remark should be taken similarly; where a matured person may take a step back from an issue, those people with softer hearts may indeed be naive, and only see the 'good' in everything and everyone, even if it doesn't exist. Sheer blindness and too trusting, sometimes. Gets people hurt, used, and killed.

Personally, I consider myself a nice guy who's had some bad times, and good times, and am trying to let those keep me level and down-to-earth. I'm a realist I'd like to think, sometimes an optimist, and sometimes a pessimist, but I always try to make informed decisions and do things the right/practical/logical way, stay on neutral ground until it's safe to move.

As for hotreds, I agreed wholeheartedly that dating was a bad idea; the one girl is gone, and the other is just a friend. I'm sorry I didn't make my understanding and agreement evident a few posts ago.

I hope this revision clears things up, and that all wounds are healed. I'm sorry for any slight I may have shown any of you.
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:-)
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And I agree; people can go through hell and still remain friends - in this case, maybe not, but neither of these individuals is going to affect my life as much as they may have earlier on.

I do understand that, and deep down, I suppose I have for awhile; I always try to see good in people, but at the same time, I can often spot the bad apples (8/10 times we'll say). I was just trying to make things work, you know "if at first you don't succeed...yadda yadda." and at least I can walk away knowing I tried my damnedest to help.

Katie's all right. Given her past, she's done very well, and I'm not worried about our friendship. Mary left of her own free will, so que sera sera.

I've got her address, if anyone wants to send her some Ghurkas :-)
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Kegan,
Life and experience and hardship and pain has done just the absolute opposite to me, and many, if not all, of these brothers who stand before you offering their advice and friendship.
All the pain has taught me that the only thing that matters is God, Love, happiness, family, and gratitude.
Learning lessons from bad things are gifts. It keeps my fingers out of the fire.
Learning what matters from those things makes me appreciate every single breath I draw, and I consider each one precious.
That's not "hard-hearted" or "callous" by any definition.
The "thick skin" comes from the "how much does it matter?"
I can't be angry and happy at the same time. Doesn't work that way. I'm not willing to give up one second of happy to be angry, because it's senseless.
Despite that, my stupidity sometimes gets ahold of me and I get pissed off. It doesn't last long. The older I get, the shorter the pissed off gets.
Despite the fact that all these gentlemen know how precious every moment is, they're spending it for you.
That's Love. There's lots here.
I've found that it's a lot easier nowadays to ask before I act. When I ask, I don't ask someone who hasn't been "down that road". You don't go to a banker for a haircut, ya know?
I ask old boys who have done really dumb sh1t (if I haven't already beat them to it), and then do the opposite, just like they've instructed me.
Works like a charm. :-)
It also allows me to quit thinking, because when I do, it always turns out the same.
Just the opposite of the way I want it to. :-)
Hope this helps!!!
Scott

PS
You might want to listen to Tom and Todd and Hugh, among others.
I sure would. :-)
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You're all saying the same thing, and I agreed a long time ago...funny thing is, this thread started because I wanted to know if it was right sending her an expensive picture frame since "I don't know her."

The back story I gave, I was just trying to paint a picture of the kind of girl she is, and how we became the friends that we are. It was only supposed to put things into context so I could get a better decision, and I'm afraid people focused more on the 'issues' the triangle caused, the context itself; yes it did, but I never meant for this thread to be about the emotional baggage, or bad women.
Although, the advice I inadvertently gleaned from people telling repeated is priceless, thank you.

And I'm sorry the first question about the item got lost in the shuffle. That's what happens when you give somebody too much paperwork; sometimes, they skim it. What I mean by that is that details were emphasized that I never meant to be, and I was given advice concerning those details alone. That's where the confusion began, and that's why this thread is three pages :-) because I talked too much.

I should have simply asked if giving her such a pricey gift was acceptable, and left her past, and the other girl out of it...but again, I was unsure because I have already done many things for her, as a friend. I thought a fuller story would lead to a fuller decision, you see?

I hope that makes sense now, and thank you all for the help.
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Even if I was to say that it was ridiculous that you sent an expensive picture frame to a girl you've never met, the fact is that you already sent it, and you can't really take it back.

Not necessarily how I feel about it, but just stating that what's happened has happened, and even if we all told you that it was a terrible idea, you've already done it anyway.

Do what you have to do Kegan. Friends on the internet is fine, I mean we are all a part of a big online forum here, and I'm glad to call many of the people here my friend. But as far as extremely long distance/internationally dating online, my advice is to leave it as just friends. You're 20, and have a lot of time to get out there and meet people. Time better spent than hacking away at a keyboard and not being with someone in person.

So straight up my advice is stay friends if that's what you and she feel is best, but that's about all. Get out there in the world and meet somebody (yeah it takes a little getting used to at first, but that's how everyone else did it before Al Gore invented the internet...). Best of luck Kegan.
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Yeah, you talk too much. Get some weed and Doritos. Go drink too much and puke in your buddy's car. You'll meet chicks and there won't be any need for picture frames.
It works. Just ask the boys. :-)
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Ah yes, the old pre-internet courtship rituals. Brings a bit of a tear to my eye just thinking about it. :-)
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Seriously, right?
It was a beautiful thing.
I met my new girlfriend in the park. Last one I met in a parking lot. I'm not sure where I met my ex-wife, cause I was drunk. Lots of expensive lessons with that one, but I wouldn't trade it for everything in the world. :-)
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God I love weed...and Doritos xD thanks boys...I think :-)

Me bring flower, ugh

-Drag her by hair back to the man cave-

See, simpler times.
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That's the spirit, kid. Never drag them by their feet, they fill up with rocks. :-)
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:-):-)
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:-) :-)

and always remember that if you stand them on their heads, they all like like sisters. Keeps you from getting too attached.
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-rimshot-
:-)
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