Barry, I didn't mean to imply that there aren't good bottles of wine that are inexpensive...I just used the context to try to clarify Vic's original question. I have had lots of great wine for under $20 a bottle as well.

I realize it was a clarification of the question, I quoted you since you were the easiest to get to :-) .... or should I say that I quoted you because your clarification was concise and to the point :-)

Aw, shucks. :-)

Because beer is viewed as a lower cost beverage, and generally speaking, it is. Cost and availability of ingredients and production is totally different for beer versus wine.

Ultimately, it's apples and oranges, it's really not a fair comparison. To compare a $14 6-pack of high-end beer to wine, one needs to find the appropriate comparison point, which, honestly, I'm not sure where that is, probably around $35-40 even 50, maybe as high as $60 or 70.

Not to say that there aren't some great $14 wines, but there are also some great $6-7 beers out there. And some bad $14 beers and some absolute crap wines for $14. Cost is not always a determining factor, but unfortunately, for a lot of public perception, price is sometimes wrongly equated to quality.

Yup.

Take for example my favorite brand of beer. Ninkasi out of Eugene OR. Why do I like it? It's cheap GOOD beer. 3.99 / 22 oz bottle. In fact it's one of the best bangs for the buck I've ever found in beer. And it's made in state to boot. I know some people who won't even touch it because it's "too cheap."


In response to the OP, I draw the line at 1$ / ounce. Most I've ever spent on a 22 oz bottle is 21.49, and the most i've spent on a 12 oz bottle is 11.49. I rarely do that, and more times than not it's a special or limited release and curiosity gets the better of me.

In OR though, craft beer is a way of life. We are SNOBs (Supporters of Native Oregon Beer) :-)


As for wines, my palette isn't nearly developed enough in that hobby to pick out "bad from good." I just know styles and what I like in that regard. When it comes to brands, I usually just sample those in my price range and find ones I enjoy drinking. As for whether or not they're "good" by someone else's standards isn't a care of mine as my opinion is the ultimate deciding factor :-)

I approach things that way with beer, with wine, with food, and even cigars.

:-):-)Thank You Tom! Exactly.

Ever try a Buckhorn?

World class = best in the world.

I do.

Perhaps I should have said "world class to me", but I thought that was obvious.

I don't buy wine based on Robert Parker recommendations and I don't buy beer based on what reviewers at www.ratebeer.com or www.beeradvocate.com have to say, since my taste in beer and wine is different from all of the above.

I know when I say that I hate Imperial Russian Stout and Belgian Abbey Ales that many beer aficionados will tell me that I'm crazy .. but I really don't care, I drink what I like. Same with wines.

For example, in MY opinion:

World class beer: Weyerbacker Simcoe Ale - 11 bucks a 4 pak.
World class wine: Caymus special select - north of 100.

The PRICE doesn't make these world class, how much I like them does.

For 2009, craft brewery sales represented 4.3 percent of volume and 6.9 percent of retail dollars of the $101 billion U.S. beer industry, the association reports.http://www.mlive.com/kalamabrew/inde...7_percent.html

There just aren't that many people out there educated about good beer. On the off chance they might pick up a craft six pack they probably get turned off by the fact that it doesn't taste like the other three beers they have had (bud,miller,coors) and therefore can't understand why you would pay so much for that crap (their words not mine).

That's easy because they don't enjoy beer enough to spend $14 on a 6 pack.

Could be exactly that for some.

:-)

Greg, I'm not ignoring you, it's just that what is great to me is not the point of my question.

You obviously work in the wine trade, but trust me my question is not some secret plot to replace wine with beer and destroy your industry:-) It's an honest question that i'm curious about.

If you must know, a great wine to me is one I enjoy. Can I find one for $14.00 a bottle? Sure. But IN GENERAL, wine at that price point is a low end wine. Drinkable, okay, but world class? No. Are there diamonds in the rough? Sure, same as with anything else. But the diamonds in the rough are still not comparable to the best wines in the world, are they? If they were, what would possibly justify the prices places like Screaming Eagle charge for their wine? Yet people will not only willingly pay these prices, they'll step on grandma's head to do it.

Flip side of the coin. Beer for $14.00 a sixpack. IN GENERAL that is going to get you some mighty fine beer, probably a beer that is one of the best in the world in it's class. Yet people ***** and moan about it and I find that funny, a little sad, and don't understand it. Are there duds? Sure. But it's the flip side of the equation, the duds are FAR outnumbered by the great beers at that price point. And the duds are rarely truly awful beers, rather it's just that they are priced too high for what they are, they are still much better than most beer out there.

And before the Bud topic comes up again, comparing Bud to craft beer is like comparing Boones Farm to Screaming Eagle. I'm willing to bet that a helluva lot more boones farm is sold every year than Screaming Eagle. Does that make Boones Farm a better wine?:-)

I'll take a wild stab here, because they like WINE?


Will we ever find out what constitutes a great bottle of wine for the OP? (Hint, its only my THIRD attempt now).

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You're kidding, right? Yeah, I am really worried that your questions will "destroy your industry"? My take on your POVs are based on you calling others snobs only because they prefer wine over beer. Like I said, that is Snobbery 101 (expecting and insisting that people like what you like).

Bud was used not to "compare" anything, apples to oranges like you stated, but simply to make it obvious that what is great to you is probably crap to someone else, and visa versa. I could have used Heineken or Beck's or any other beer that you may not consider "world class", the name or production quantity are inconsequential here. What is, though, is asking "Why is this guy buying bagels when I prefer this world class french baggette?" and acting like there should be no disagreement with your taste/spending preferences.

Bud was still a great example, IMO, to show that even when given a CHOICE and (lower) price of competing products, people PREFER to buy Bud, to THEM it is WORLD CLASS.

Thank you for confirming the obvious. Your deliberate omission of stating what constitutes great wine to YOU would probably result in a number of people pointing out it is not great wine to THEM (I am actually willing to bet on this). Exactly the point you refuse to acknowledge and the one, I am sure, you did foresee coming.

Anyway, thanks for pointing out to a number of us just how unrefined and "snobbish" our palates and buying preferences are. :-)

I'll go and pick out a non-Cohiba to smoke on a deck, its nice outside... And while I am at it, pop open an $18 bottle of wine which I do consider great (friend of mine makes it). To edukat and rephine my pallet...

Mmm Old Stock!!!:-)

I drink it with my pinky up!!!:-)

Yes, he was. Note the smiley.

Beer is good!
Wine is good!

What is the question again?

Please point out where Vic called anyone a snob. I missed it.