I rarely disagree with you, Scott, but in this case I do.

Paterno did the legal thing. But he failed to do the moral thing.
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I don't care where this happened. I don't care about the team. I will not feel somehow let down because a certain institution will be impacted. The rah-rah bullsh!t mentality is a waste of time. This is simply about the good old boy protectionism and perversion of individuals. If this happened at 3M you wouldn't have people wringing their hands about the "integrity of the company" and the "stellar performance of it's divisions" by the average Joe. While having passion for your particular sports teams is certainly something many people enjoy, I think that perhaps if this situation gets you all bent out of shape regarding the institution (other than feeling that those people that didn't do the right and moral thing made the school a lesser place, and wanting that culture to occur at a higher standard) perhaps your priorities aren't what I would perceive to be in the same hierarchy as my own.
Yes, if this business that is Penn State has people working for it who cultivate a view of themselves as being apart or above the law, it needs to change. Sports are a business for the Universities, with some other added benefits. Huge egos, in a small subculture of our society that is rewarded and stroked by millions and millions of people. Many of them "play by their own rules" which, in most cases, is fairly harmless. In some instances like this one it has evolved into a disgusting hydra of a shameful and heartbreaking situation.
I feel for the victims of this. Those guilty of the perversion/shielding/deflecting/lying/not acting in the proper manner or not following through should get the justice they deserve.
Does that mean I will get out the crying towel for the institution and how it's reputation is stained, damaged, etc?

No. Simple priorities. It is about the victims, and the guilty. I will not be anguished over a flawed institution (business). I would hope they take every step necessary to repair the culture that allowed this to happen. That I can see is germane to this discussion.

edit:
Regarding Joe Pa, in my world, if presented with something like this, so very, very wrong, I do not think I could simply "report it" and then not make sure it was handled. The buck stopped, for the most part with him. Half measures and deflections and putting your head in the sand after you "did what was required" of you reminds me of a certain ongoing problem in another, very old monstrous institution. With the same type of problem.
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That's what I'm missing. What was the moral thing to do? Beat his @$$ (which is what I might have done if I were him)? He told his superiors what was going on, then he was told by his superiors that they had taken care of the issue/cleared his name.
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Same here.

Also, after reading the grand jury report, a Texas court would most definitely have a different take on whether he did the "legal thing". Many states, including Texas, require every person who has cause to believe (notice it says "cause to believe", a pretty low standard) that a child is being abused or neglected to report it. Additionally, here, "professionals" including doctors, teachers, and anyone who works with children, are even required to report within 48 hours or face criminal sanctions.

Just because something is legal somewhere (assuming it even is--I don't know Pennsylvania criminal law) doesn't make it right.
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remember that thing i said about going off half cocked? you either didn't read what I wrote or chose to ignore it
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I did. It is not about the fans or the alumni. You and I will have to agree to disagree.
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yes everything can only be black and white. so by your line of thinking, this isn't about joe or the university, it's only about the sick **** who was raping little boys
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IMO, I will formulate opinion on people, not only on their ability to follow the laws on the land, but of the moral laws of humankind.

If someone on my staff came up to me and said that they just observed another member of my staff, who happened to be a long time friend, anally rapping a kid, I would not feel my "duty" ended when I did the minimum of all actions, which is to leave that information in someone elses hands, let someone else deal with it.

ESPECIALLY when I see that went nowhere. It should be noted that this was not the first time I had heard "rumblings" about this dirtbag.

This is not just about one person either, it is about every person at Penn State and even outside of Penn State University, who knew about this and did nothing more than the bare minimum at best, less than that at worst.

In the end, unless you are going with the theory that McQueary made up the story...then McQueary failed. Then Paterno failed. Then Curley failed. Then Schultz failed. There are more names I am sure....

You watch Matt Millen here, you tell me that he doesn't know this exact statement in his heart... McQueary failed. Then Paterno failed. Then Curley failed. Then Schultz failed. Penn State University, which is part of me, the place which had a big part of making me who I am today, a place I love, people that I love, failed these children.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MKAt...layer_embedded
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Let's keep this civil and about the issues.
I won't ask a second time.
Posted via Mobile Device
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In my mind, the moral thing to do would have been to report the information to law enforcement. I'm pretty sure the parents of the rape victims would agree on this point.
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McQueary failed the second he didn't rush in and slam sanduskys head into a wall
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But vin, at that point would it just be hearsay? "I heard from somebody that X happened"?

If you read the indictment, which I'd only recommend to those with strong stomachs, the police, CPS, et all had known about this guy for a bit.

I still fail to see how Joe Pa retiring a disgrace is the next step.
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Agreed.

And I didn't go to penn state and I don't watch college football.
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What we're missing here is that we don't know all the things that he truly did do. We know one thing, and that is that he immediately reported the incident to his superiors. We don't even know if he followed up or not, but everyone is assuming that based on God knows what. It's certainly not based on his character or past performance.
If we're assuming he did nothing else but take this to his higher ups, that also makes no sense. He's not spoken to his personal involvement or mentioned what he did or did not do.
That goes right back to indicting him on what's in our imagination rather than what actually happened.
Along the way he also dismissed Sandusky from his ball club, plus let him know that he was no longer in line for the head coaching position that was to be passed to him. So that's three things we know he did.
We don't have to agree, my friend, but I'm not sure what this moral thing is that he failed to do, or how we know he didn't do it?

Sandusky was allowed by the college's officials to continue use of all Penn State's facilities AFTER Joe had already run him out of his program. Doesn't that sound like Joe's hands were tied, or that he must have been led to believe that all these accusations against Sandusky were either erroneous or already taken care of?
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I guess the question I would need to ask myself is if it had happened to my kid, would I be ok that Paterno took no other action than informing his superior?

My answer would be no, I would most definitely not be ok.


To be clear, Paterno is far from the only one who has culpability here, but he was in a position to stop this guy and didn't even though he followed the letter of the law.

And Scott, Joe Paterno IS Penn State -- his hands are never tied.
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Vin, agreed 100%. But...

Do you know that he took no other action? Do you know that he wasn't told that it was "handled" by the two guys that got arrested for lying to the grand jury?

Like Scott says, him being complacent in this or one step further, assisting in a cover up as some people (not here that I have seen) seem to believe does not go along with his character as it is known for his past actions that have been substantiated.
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"It takes a lifetime to build a reputation and a single act to destroy it."

Perhaps words to remember and live by.

JoePa doesn't get a pass because of all of the other things he did. Sorry.
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Law enforcement was already involved at the time Joe became involved, Vin. Actually, they were involved years prior. And did nothing.
Joe had already removed Sandusky from his program, told him he wouldn't be receiving the head coaching position, and reported the grad student's information. All things that were within his power.

Penn State officials allowed Sandusky to continue to use Penn State facilities as part of his retirement in 99 when Joe ran him off.
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That is my point! What was the single act? No one knows what he was told was happening. No one here at least or in the media. It's all just conjecture. The Police already knew about this guy. I just don't get the vilification.

What I'm saying is, based on the lifetime of reputation it's hard to believe that he WOULD do the "single act" to tarnish it. Doesn't add up.
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But we do know what he was told by McQueary do we not?

The failure to act IS an act, sometimes legally, more frequently morally.:-)
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