First Firearm Thread. - Page 299 - Cigar Asylum Cigar Forum

Gotta tell you, for accuracy, shoot a 21.
I am no marksman and yet at 15-25 feet, I can group a full mag, where half the shots virtually go in almost the exact spot and the other half, practically next to it.
There is something about the weight of that .45 gun loaded that causes the recoil to go back, instead of up, yielding incredible accuracy.
I have shot many, many guns to figure out what was best for me, and this 21 has my son, daughter in law and wife, shooting amazingly accurate also.
Definitely not our marksmanship that is doing it as can't duplicate that with any of my numerous other guns.
Best advice is as given, to go to a range and shoot away. What is good for one is not necessarily good for all. Popularity means nothing. My Ruger LCP is probably the most popular .380 yet God awful to shoot for most, inclusive of me.

Originally Posted by bonjing:
I think the recent ammo shortage just kind of disproved that theory. The common caliber's were not easy to find for all people.

:-)

Originally Posted by emopunker2004:
I didnt say anything about buying them. I said FIND :-)

:-)

Originally Posted by emopunker2004:
I didnt say anything about buying them. I said FIND :-)

Ooohhh, I get it:-) wink, wink, nudge, nudge :-)

:-)

What do you shoot now?

Originally Posted by bonjing:
What do you shoot now?

Pretty sure just a keyboard

Originally Posted by emopunker2004:
Well look what I picked up today plus 400rds of 7.62x39.....

Image
Untitled by emopunker2004, on Flickr

Here's the after. Stained the wood and put a BLO coat on it. Added tapco slot brake

Image
Untitled by emopunker2004, on Flickr

Originally Posted by Robulous78:
So I need some advice...

It wouldn't be my first firearm but My Pop's has said to pick out an "affordable" gun I like and he'd see about getting it for me for x-mas...

What handguns would you suggest? If I do get something Semi-auto I would like it to have a rail as none of my others do...

What lower is "affordable" yet well constructed, in case I decide to have him get me a lower and do my own build?

How much would a decent AR-15 build run after the lower?

Thanks for your answers fellas...

affordable I would say is 600 or less out the door...

He actually suggested I look into the Springfield XD line... So I would guess since he suggested it that is "affordable"

What if I bought an already built AR-15? better or worse than DIY?

Original Post

Originally Posted by emopunker2004:
Grabagun has a PSA rifle for 700.

I prefer Glock personally

We already have a few Glocks in the Family, I can't say I am overly fond of them personally... just not my bag...

Originally Posted by Blueface:
In that price range, Glock for sure.
Question is do you want it for carrying or just to have for shooting at range/home defense?
If latter, go big with a 21.
If looking to shoot cheaper than .45 caliber, go 17 or 19, the latter being a mid size one.

I am looking for something multi purpose... I want something for defense that is fun on the range and makes a bit of a "don't f-uck around" statement. I like rounds with a lot of punch... .357 mag being my favorite but not available for semi autos... gave thought to .357 sig but haven't shot any yet to make a determination...

Originally Posted by dijit:
Rob, I would say go test drive several handguns. Glocks are hard to beat for reliability but for me point of aim is off due to grip angle. The XD from Springfield is arguable nearly as reliable as Glock. If used is an option try the Sig Sauer line (one of the best I have tried).

For the AR if you really want to know and appreciate your weapon build one. Depending on tastes it can be expensive but you will have a better understanding of the weapon and how make it perform better.

My dad really likes the XD line... he suggested I look into it for this purchase but I haven't been able to test drive anything... I really find myself in a place where no one I know around me has anything, there aren't any indoor ranges to rent different stuff to test drive... I kinda have to take my experiences with different rounds to the pawn shop, hold a bunch of stuff and imagine how I think it would feel... which sucks admittedly....

I am really thinking about starting my own AR-15 build... but I know they can soak up a lot of cash quickly... just ask Justin....

:-) I kid I kid... :-)

If I did build an AR. out of study and reliable but not necessarily name brand parts, if the lower was complete and covered, what would my end of the build cost me realistically?

I want to shoot the heads off of Zombies at 200 yards... not the wings off of flies at 1000....

:-)

I am open to anything, handgun or AR...

Anyone want to tell me more about the Used Sigs Sauers? or what about Used H&K's?

I am not a first gun owner as the thread states, I am thinking mostly in the following ways about handguns...

1) is Ammo for it going to be a pain in the ass to get or a pain in the wallet to purchase?

2) can it be both CCW-ish and still have a good punch for self defense/home protection applications, hand feel, and if I am CCW I want a safety also....

3) is it SIMPLE? does it come apart to clean easily? does it have 1000 pieces or 4?

The rest of what I rambled on up top are considerations also but I know you can't find EVERYTHING in 1 package...

If I am going the AR route, my considerations are different,

1) if I get the lower, what are my costs for "decent" parts to finish out the build, meaning to make a firing weapon, customization can come later...

2) is ammo an issue to find on these already? how about the future? how expensive is it now and how expensive will it/ can it be?

3) I want my build as close to the federal limits as possible, might as well get as close to the line as they let you in case they push it back later, what are they? are they more expensive to build towards, and whats the cost of a build like this run?

Originally Posted by bonjing:
What do you shoot now?

Right now I don't shoot too much, but when I go home we always go out to the range and fire a lot of different stuff... usually 9mm...

Originally Posted by emopunker2004:
Pretty sure just a keyboard

:-) Yea... I type a lot...

Also... A few more AR questions, do the lowers, uppers, barrel interchange or do you have to consider compatability?

My dad has a .223 AR... I want a 5.56 for consideration in the questions above...

Originally Posted by Robulous78:
Right now I don't shoot too much, but when I go home we always go out to the range and fire a lot of different stuff... usually 9mm...

:-) Yea... I type a lot...

The reason I ask what you shoot now is to help narrow down some selections. When you go home what type of firearms are you shooting, let us know specifics; make, model, what you like about them and what you dont. You say don't like glock. If you don't want a bunch of parts than sig and hk are out too depending on the type of service/cleaning you want to do them. Simple break down is most firearms take down to 4 or 5 simple parts; frame, slide, barrel, spring guide rod if you want to count that. You also say you want a safety on your firearm, what kind? Frame mounted, trigger or slide? Do you like double action or single action semi autos, are you comfortable using both (sig).

Way to many questions to ask without knowing the depth of your shooting experience.

Originally Posted by bonjing:
The reason I ask what you shoot now is to help narrow down some selections. When you go home what type of firearms are you shooting, let us know specifics; make, model, what you like about them and what you dont. You say don't like glock. If you don't want a bunch of parts than sig and hk are out too depending on the type of service/cleaning you want to do them. Simple break down is most firearms take down to 4 or 5 simple parts; frame, slide, barrel, spring guide rod if you want to count that. You also say you want a safety on your firearm, what kind? Frame mounted, trigger or slide? Do you like double action or single action semi autos, are you comfortable using both (sig).

Way to many questions to ask without knowing the depth of your shooting experience.

My Experience,
S&W .44 Mag, Love it but alas a revolver
S&W .357 Mag, Looooooveee it... but alas also a revolver
Ruger P-89 9mm, Probably my favorite of my Semi Autos, low recoil, very balanced.
IMI Baby Eagle 9mm, Love the all metal construction, tad bit heavy... about as small as my hand will allow without pinky coming off the bottom
Glock 22, I like the .40 caliber cartridge, but I want something with a bit more flair...

After looking at H&K I think I am turned off, still kinda interested in Sig Sauer's stuff...

When I was talking about safety's I was referring to frame safetys... I would be ok with a trigger safety too but I prefer frame... What is a slide safety and how does it differ from frame? if it is just the placement then that would be fine as well...

double or single are fine by me, hammer or hammerless doesn't make a difference to me...

Originally Posted by Robulous78:
I am not a first gun owner as the thread states, I am thinking mostly in the following ways about handguns...

1) is Ammo for it going to be a pain in the ass to get or a pain in the wallet to purchase?

The 357 Sig you like, yeah, expensive as crap and not easily found. For bang for caliber and price, .45 is the way.

2) can it be both CCW-ish and still have a good punch for self defense/home protection applications, hand feel, and if I am CCW I want a safety also....

For CCW, .40 or 9mm. However, the XDs in .45, while only holding five rounds is small, thin, easily concealed and powerful, yet unbelievably manageable and on my must have list.

3) is it SIMPLE? does it come apart to clean easily? does it have 1000 pieces or 4?

Nothing beats Glocks for simplicity. Four parts, easy/fast takedown. You mention a safety in your replies, which clearly Glocks don't have. I use two for concealed, a Shield 9mm and a Ruger LCP .380. The latter does not have a safety and while the Shield does, and while I thought it was important to have it, I have learned and adjusted to the thought that if I ever have to draw to save my life, the last thing I care to do is first release a safety, regardless of how easy it may be. So, I never use it. Only time is when I clear the chamber, drop the mag, pull slide to double check and then put on safety as added measure if showing someone the gun, or when in my safe loaded.

The rest of what I rambled on up top are considerations also but I know you can't find EVERYTHING in 1 package...

If I am going the AR route, my considerations are different,

1) if I get the lower, what are my costs for "decent" parts to finish out the build, meaning to make a firing weapon, customization can come later...

Lowers are back to pre frenzy prices. You can get a Spikes for as low as $95.

2) is ammo an issue to find on these already? how about the future? how expensive is it now and how expensive will it/ can it be?

.223/5.56 ammo is back in stock and about a dollar off the pre frenzy prices. It is a military round. Will be around for a long, long time.

3) I want my build as close to the federal limits as possible, might as well get as close to the line as they let you in case they push it back later, what are they? are they more expensive to build towards, and whats the cost of a build like this run?

Only limits I am aware of is 16" barrel and no full auto.

See above.

Originally Posted by Robulous78:
Original Post

I am looking for something multi purpose... I want something for defense that is fun on the range and makes a bit of a "don't f-uck around" statement. I like rounds with a lot of punch... .357 mag being my favorite but not available for semi autos... gave thought to .357 sig but haven't shot any yet to make a determination...

The .357 I have tried in a Sig model 226? and was arguably one of the best balanced load/weapon combinations I have ever tried. The problem is its very expensive to shoot and a pain in the ass to reload. That being said with the right powder bullet combo you can easily achieve 1500 to 1600 fps with a 124 gr JHP. Awesome show of I dont take no **** at the range.

Here's a better quality picture of the AFTER; DSLR instead of iPhone.

Image
IMG_6415 by emopunker2004, on Flickr

Originally Posted by Robulous78:
My Experience,
S&W .44 Mag, Love it but alas a revolver
S&W .357 Mag, Looooooveee it... but alas also a revolver
Ruger P-89 9mm, Probably my favorite of my Semi Autos, low recoil, very balanced.
IMI Baby Eagle 9mm, Love the all metal construction, tad bit heavy... about as small as my hand will allow without pinky coming off the bottom
Glock 22, I like the .40 caliber cartridge, but I want something with a bit more flair...

After looking at H&K I think I am turned off, still kinda interested in Sig Sauer's stuff...

When I was talking about safety's I was referring to frame safetys... I would be ok with a trigger safety too but I prefer frame... What is a slide safety and how does it differ from frame? if it is just the placement then that would be fine as well...

double or single are fine by me, hammer or hammerless doesn't make a difference to me...

If you want something with a bit more flair than 40, that fits a lot of your criteria look at a desset eagle in 357 :-) A slide mounted safety would be something along the lines of Beretta 92. Not my favorite because it's to easily to activate the safety during malfunction drills.

What I recommend to take a look at are, in no particular order:

S&W M&P9/40/45. Great ergonomics (for me) adjustable backstraps to fit a variety of hands. And can have an optional frame mounted safety like a 1911. Downside is that the safety flips on and off very easily

Ruger SR9/40 Haven't shot one yet, but it was my next purchase due to it being very inexpensive, but a glock 19 came up that I wanted. Has a safety fame mounted safety and trigger safety as well.

Sig 299R (9/40/357.) No safety, but since you're used to revolver shooting using the DA/SA trigger should not be a problem for you.

All are concealable, at least for me. The least expensive of the three would be the Ruger, then S&W finally Sig.

Originally Posted by Robulous78:
I am not a first gun owner as the thread states, I am thinking mostly in the following ways about handguns...

1) is Ammo for it going to be a pain in the ass to get or a pain in the wallet to purchase?
Depends on how much you shoot. Prices are still a little high, but ammo is more available than it's been since the Great Panic of 2013. If cost is a concern, I would look at a caliber that's widely available and more cost effective...like 9mm. Remember, it doesn't matter how big a bullet you're shooting, if you're not making your hits, then it's all wasted.

2) can it be both CCW-ish and still have a good punch for self defense/home protection applications, hand feel, and if I am CCW I want a safety also....
Nothing wrong with 9mm for both. 9mm is very manageable and most double stack handguns hold about 20 rounds. I have both 9 and .45 for both CCW and home.

3) is it SIMPLE? does it come apart to clean easily? does it have 1000 pieces or 4?
XD's are by far the easiest to field strip. Glocks a close 2nd. But at some point, you will have to detail strip the firearm...and ALL of them come in lots of small pieces. But in a firefight, the worst you would have to do is field strip, and that's for a worst case scenario.

Field Strip - remove slide from frame, remove guide rod/recoil spring assembly, remove barrel...inspect and reassemble.

Detail Strip - take it down to the frame and bare slide for cleaning/maintenance.

The rest of what I rambled on up top are considerations also but I know you can't find EVERYTHING in 1 package...
You'd be surprised. My first handgun purchase was an XD .45 Compact. It's had upwards of 10k rounds through it...no malfunctions. Comes with a 10-round mag for carry, and a 13-round for home. But I added a mag extension for home, so it's really 17 rounds. Even has a rail for my light.

If I am going the AR route, my considerations are different,
Yup. AR's CAN be used for home defense, but are larger and have higher velocity rounds. Train with a handgun, take as many classes as you can to be proficient with a handgun...THEN move up to an AR for defense. Mine stays in the safe while I'm at home.

1) if I get the lower, what are my costs for "decent" parts to finish out the build, meaning to make a firing weapon, customization can come later...
$80 for a lower. Another $80 for a lower parts kit. $50 for the tools to assemble it yourself, could be more. $500-900 for a complete upper to bolt on to it. I built my AR that way and grand total was $875 using Spike's Tactical parts. If you've never had one, I say buy one already complete. Familiarize yourself with it, THEN venture into building your own.

2) is ammo an issue to find on these already? how about the future? how expensive is it now and how expensive will it/ can it be?
What others have said...ammo is available, and the prices will eventually come down. Key is to check the online places when they run deals on cases. AIMsurplus.com is one of my go-to's.

3) I want my build as close to the federal limits as possible, might as well get as close to the line as they let you in case they push it back later, what are they? are they more expensive to build towards, and whats the cost of a build like this run?
keep the barrel no shorter than 16", and no full auto. Anything shorter than 16" is a Short Barrel Rifle and requires a tax stamp. Full auto is a Class III item and requires a lot of paperwork and money. But most places will specify if their parts are SBR/III.

I carry both .45 and 9mm. .40 is just another caliber I would have to buy for.

Originally Posted by Blueface:
See above.

Thanks for the answers... :-)

Originally Posted by dijit:
The .357 I have tried in a Sig model 226? and was arguably one of the best balanced load/weapon combinations I have ever tried. The problem is its very expensive to shoot and a pain in the ass to reload. That being said with the right powder bullet combo you can easily achieve 1500 to 1600 fps with a 124 gr JHP. Awesome show of I dont take no **** at the range.

Thanks for the info... the more I think about it I like the idea of a .357 auto but it seems like it would be kinda a pain in the ass in the same token... Maybe if I was a reloader or if I had more connections... for now might as well keep it simple...

Originally Posted by bonjing:
If you want something with a bit more flair than 40, that fits a lot of your criteria look at a desset eagle in 357 :-) A slide mounted safety would be something along the lines of Beretta 92. Not my favorite because it's to easily to activate the safety during malfunction drills.

Hmm... That DE makes me want a .357 auto again...

:-)

While I don't mind the Beretta 92... a friend already owns it and I want something I can show off...

:-)

Originally Posted by bonjing:
What I recommend to take a look at are, in no particular order:

S&W M&P9/40/45. Great ergonomics (for me) adjustable backstraps to fit a variety of hands. And can have an optional frame mounted safety like a 1911. Downside is that the safety flips on and off very easily

Ruger SR9/40 Haven't shot one yet, but it was my next purchase due to it being very inexpensive, but a glock 19 came up that I wanted. Has a safety fame mounted safety and trigger safety as well.

Sig 299R (9/40/357.) No safety, but since you're used to revolver shooting using the DA/SA trigger should not be a problem for you.

All are concealable, at least for me. The least expensive of the three would be the Ruger, then S&W finally Sig.

I will certainly look into all of these... thanks for the recos... :-)

Originally Posted by Lockspur:
I carry both .45 and 9mm. .40 is just another caliber I would have to buy for.

Yea... That is what is turning me away from the .357 sig / auto round...