Well you make sure to let Jr. know my number. There's great smoking lounges around here less the dominos. My weeknights are pretty open so it wouldn't be hard to get away for an early evening cigar. They may not make rum-runners up here, but I'm sure there are plenty other cocktails that would suffice. When's he heading this way and what's his cigar of choice these days? :-)

I think he leaves in a couple of days but will check.
As for smokes, just take a wild guess.

Dad's
Dad's Cubans
Dad's Padrons

Any of them will qualify.

Ji,

I have nothing but respect for you and others who took over duties at CS during a tough time. You, Andy, Greg, Aaron, Dave and everyone did and do a wonderful job.

It is sad to see the proverbial line in the sand as you say, but we are human, and whether it be based on sadness, anger or confusion, people want to vent, discuss, and sometimes bash. I will always respect you, not just as a Mod, but as a BOTL and someone who I have had nothing but positive interaction with. I hope that will continue, regardless of where.

Great things in life surely stand the test of time... The heart of Clubstogie is definately still alive over here...

Tom, thanks for those kind words. You know that landscape can't change established relationships.. :-)

I was going to say, like father like son before I had the chance to read that you had spelled it out for me!

Ji,

I remember when I started at CS, you were always level headed and it seemed as though your posts were always well thought out.

No matter what happens to Puff, good or bad, you always have my respect.

I had a conversation with the new owner about this very situation.

I made the point that it is fine to take money from people but don't sit there and say that it is a "donation" when the money is going to what is explicitly a for-profit entity. I call a spade a spade and I said so. Being a supporter of PBS is different than subscribing to HBO. I made it very clear that it was not about the money for me but the "donation" seems like a double-dip and misleading.

I was basically told that: 1, they were not changing anything regarding the site supporter situation, 2, CS was a very profitable site (same as Puff) and that the site supporter donations at CS were not really supporting the site, just gravy and Paul was making a lot of money and 3, that $20 every six months "is not going to make or break him/the site".


After number 3 I pretty much :-).

I hope that clears it up for everyone. :-)

I can not wait until the 18th when I will no longer have a "Site Supporter" tag under my nick.


Much respect for the Mods over there but I do not like the man behind the curtain.

Wow!!!
Not surprising but................Wow!!!

FWIW.. my subscription to Donate to ClubStogie expired in December and has now gone the way of the Dinosaur. I had no problems donating to Paul to help fray the costs of bandwidth and hardware.

My thoughts were that the donations/subscriptions program however you want to perceive them hasn't changed, but the premise has changed.

ClubStogie $20 donation every six months. Paul said thank you by giving some additional functionality to ClubStogie for your donation, i.e. radio, poker, larger PM box, maybe some others. But you weren't paying or subscribing to these functions.

Now it seems like it's a $20 subscription/donation keep the added functionality.

The features were never the reason I donated to Clubstogie. Easy enough to understand why donations are no longer necesary unless you want the added features.

This kind of stuff makes an ugly read for me... it's disheartening to say the least.

I wrote a very lengthy post on Puffer.com in reply to Dave's post criticizing Jon's claim that his member was bigger than Dave's, but I decided to keep my mouth shut. Let us all talk a moment to bow and celebrate this rarity. :-)


I just do not understand the demonizing of Jon for trying to make a profit. He may be an asshole. He may not even have access to 827 boxes of aged cuban cigars (and thats only at his office humidor!!!). But profit was the chief motivator on both sides. Paul left because the site he created (as a hobby) and helped grow (as a passion) had taken to much of his time from his friends and family. It became a job.

I'm sure the reason it didn't become his sole source of employment was simply because it didn't have the pay and benefits per hour he put in. Plain and simple, he left because it didn't have the profitability.

On the other side of the fence stood Jon, who thought he could take his time and effort, and make it profitable.


I don't see how we can blame either man....solely from the perspective of being the site's admin and paying for it/making a profit. Other than that, despite my time on CS, I know neither Paul nor Jon well enough to comment. But Tom's still a DB...or so I've heard.

that would be the crux of the biscuit behind this post.
http://www.puff.com/forums/vb/questi...lubhouses.html




My text for those that do not want to travel:
"When the clubhouses go active, will there be any kind of admission fee for any part of each clubhouse or any perks, other than the "JonSupporter" current icons? I guess I am wondering if the highly intrusive ad revenue plastered over all the pages would offset any need for revenue generated from members."



It has yet to be responded to by Jon, and it will be bumped to the first page until my question is answered.

Certainly not my intention to put you down or make you feel bad in anyway. Like I said I really like ALL of the mods over there. I just thought that people who are "site supporters" have a right to know.

PM Sent BTW...

My issue is not that there is a profit being made. My issue is that the subscription fee was/is being passed off as a donation.


PS - it looks like your invisible ink has expired.

Andrew.. it wasn't taken in that light. :-)

It's just kind of an ugly animal that's all....

You guys as mods are doing a lot of work between all of you for a site that few seem to care too much for. I respect you and pity you all at the same time, (respectfully also.) I have created some of that work at times, but the fact remains that we can all see what is happening.

I am not sure I would hang in there and work for free for a place that is losing it's soul. As it becomes more and more commercial, I would think that the aquarists running that fish tank should be treated with a little monetary respect, for allowing the clicking to continue to take place relatively uninterrupted into Jons coffers.

Son of a...! I donated $3k to Tom...he told me that invisible ink would last a lifetime!

Indeed we are human, and it is our prerogative to voice opinion and emotion. It's not sad to pick sides - or create controversy.

However, when the jabs continue over time - it begins to appear obsessive.

I'd say many of us are still in the early stages of the grief process. :-)

I always thought there was a big pitcher of kool-Aid passed around shortly after the announcement. I don;t think the end result surprises many of us, here.

The site is now what it was supposed to be. The heart of THAT site changed last October as soon as it went from community to commodity. I think the pain/anger/frustration some of feel is because we all felt like we "owned" CS, whether we were a "supporter" or not.

When it was announced there was a new owner, we all realized we would no longer have a say.

IMHO, Jon's motives and personality were out there for all to see if you went looking at some of the other boards, one in particular. Some chose not to see, others knew.

I don;t really care if CA becomes the biggest, the best or whatever catgeory you want it to be. It is a place where I have friends, annoyances, rants and bad humor, and that's all it has to be for me.

And then there's MCS...:-)