Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? - Page 2

Originally Posted by Subvet642:
I'm with you, but I'd go a step further; kill the whole damned school, revoke their charter, pull all their grants. That place was Hell for, what, 14 years? How many children were tortured there? Screw the damned school! The institution, by it's acquiescence, permitted it to happen and therefore the whole institution should be held accountable. The survival of Penn State isn't worth one second of the pain, horror and misery those children went through, and to suggest that it's unfair to the professors, staff and students to close it down, I think that would be akin keeping the Nazi death camps open because the guards need the jobs. :-)

:-)

I'm in favor of litigating the hell out Penn State and their employees. Should the ncaa not be held liable as well? I don't follow college sports or know really how the ncaa is structured as a governing body.. maybe someone can tell me why the ncaa is clear from all liability?
[Reply]

Originally Posted by jonumberone:
If you lack the moral character to make the right decision by yourself, will a possible penalty from the NCAA really matter?

The people involved are gone.
All the Coaches are gone.
The AD is gone as well as his assistants.
The school President is gone.
Exactly who do you want to punish?

If you want to ban the above people from ever being involved in any NCAA activity, fine.
But what is left of Penn State, wasn't involved.

This should do the trick, along with ripping down Paterno's statue. The rest of the school, as long as there hasn't been found that it has any further involvement, should be left as is. The current and incoming student body will ultimately decide the fate of the school with their collective pocket books (i.e I wouldn't send my kid there).
[Reply]

Originally Posted by Dave128:
This should do the trick, along with ripping down Paterno's statue. The rest of the school, as long as there hasn't been found that it has any further involvement, should be left as is. The current and incoming student body will ultimately decide the fate of the school with their collective pocket books (i.e I wouldn't send my kid there).

+1

I'm in this camp personally. Everyone who was involved in the incident is gone, and I think to shut down the program would just involve too much collateral damage. Equipment mangers, medical staff, ticket sales people, Radio & TV guys - they're all out of a job even though they had nothing to do with the scandal. But I think the people it hurts the most are the athletes, who really had nothing to do with the decisions their coaches were making. I think they'll be the ones punished the most in the long run if the ax comes down on the program.
[Reply]

Originally Posted by Subvet642:
I'm with you, but I'd go a step further; kill the whole damned school, revoke their charter, pull all their grants. That place was Hell for, what, 14 years? How many children were tortured there? Screw the damned school! The institution, by it's acquiescence, permitted it to happen and therefore the whole institution should be held accountable. The survival of Penn State isn't worth one second of the pain, horror and misery those children went through, and to suggest that it's unfair to the professors, staff and students to close it down, I think that would be akin keeping the Nazi death camps open because the guards need the jobs. :-)

And Godwin's Law rules the day...
[Reply]

Originally Posted by jonumberone:
If you lack the moral character to make the right decision by yourself, will a possible penalty from the NCAA really matter?

The people involved are gone.
All the Coaches are gone.
The AD is gone as well as his assistants.
The school President is gone.
Exactly who do you want to punish?

If you want to ban the above people from ever being involved in any NCAA activity, fine.
But what is left of Penn State, wasn't involved.

This.
[Reply]

Originally Posted by smitty81:
The NCAA is the government of the athletic student body and coaching staff. If someone messes up, it's their job to take correct actions if necessary.

No, they're a non-profit charter organization that exists to regulate intercollegiate competition.
[Reply]

Originally Posted by King James:
The problem with giving Penn State the death penalty is that there technically were no NCAA rules on the books that were violated, and rule violations are required in order to give the death penalty for a lack of institutional control. It will be interesting to see if the NCAA concocts a reason, and what kind of precedent that would set for handing out NCAA sanctions regarding criminal activity within an athletic program

Which is my point. There were no NCAA infractions. If they do take action it'll be unprecedented.
[Reply]

Originally Posted by Stephen:
If they do take action it'll be unprecedented.

As is what they are dealing with.....
[Reply]

Originally Posted by jonumberone:
But what is left of Penn State, wasn't involved.

Involved? In what? The rapes and the coverups? Maybe not. But many were involved in the insane rallys/riots in support of JoePa when everyone in the country outside of Happy Valley was already either uneasy or queasy about him? Many (All?) of those you're hoping to shield from harm benefited from and/or were supported by the cover-up and lack of accountability in the institution and protection of the football program.

Penn State IS football to an awful lot of people - inside and outside that community. I would have no issue with a death penalty - or any other penalty that deprives Penn State of its football program for years.
[Reply]

Originally Posted by Stephen:
Which is my point. There were no NCAA infractions. If they do take action it'll be unprecedented.

Total lack of institutional control should more than cover it. I, for one, don't think that the NCAA rules book needs to specifically prohibit university coaches from raping little boys in football facility showers and covering it up.
[Reply]

Originally Posted by E.J.:
As is what they are dealing with.....

Not really. Unless you're willing to believe that no university has covered up criminal activity within their athletics department before. And if that's the case, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale...
[Reply]

Originally Posted by dave:
Total lack of institutional control should more than cover it. I, for one, don't think that the NCAA rules book needs to specifically prohibit university coaches from raping little boys in football facility showers and covering it up.

Pretty much sums it up............
[Reply]

Originally Posted by dave:
Total lack of institutional control should more than cover it. I, for one, don't think that the NCAA rules book needs to specifically prohibit university coaches from raping little boys in football facility showers and covering it up.

And that's what law enforcement is for.
[Reply]

Originally Posted by dave:
Involved? In what? The rapes and the coverups? Maybe not. But many were involved in the insane rallys/riots in support of JoePa when everyone in the country outside of Happy Valley was already either uneasy or queasy about him? Many (All?) of those you're hoping to shield from harm benefited from and/or were supported by the cover-up and lack of accountability in the institution and protection of the football program.

Penn State IS football to an awful lot of people - inside and outside that community. I would have no issue with a death penalty - or any other penalty that deprives Penn State of its football program for years.

So what you want is vengeance, not justice. Gotcha...
[Reply]

Originally Posted by Stephen:
Not really. Unless you're willing to believe that no university has covered up criminal activity within their athletics department before. And if that's the case, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale...

You have lost your mind......... If you don't think this is a different level of anything we have heard within an instititution.....again, we can just agree to disagree.... (I'm actually shaking my head is I type....unbelievable....)
[Reply]

Originally Posted by E.J.:
You have lost your mind......... If you don't think this is a different level of anything we have heard within an instititution.....again, we can just agree to disagree.... (I'm actually shaking my head is I type....unbelievable....)

I'm amazed you're able to type at all, what with the pitchfork in one hand and a torch in the other.
[Reply]

But, for the record, I think that if the NCAA found out that an institution was covering up major illegal activity within a sports program, bet your ass they'd step in....and I'd expect them to.

....and I think you'll find that they do in this instance as well.... Which is the exact reason PSU is trying to figure out how to get ahead of the curve as I type....
[Reply]

Originally Posted by Stephen:
I'm amazed you're able to type at all, what with the pitchfork in one hand and a torch in the other.

Pitchfork & torch.......:-) What punishment have I ask for that you think is unreasonable?

Oh.....any..... See, that is where you and I are on different sides. I think the NCAA has to do something in this situation and you feel like they should do nothing.... But pitchfork and torch.....:-)
[Reply]

Originally Posted by dave:
Involved? In what? The rapes and the coverups? Maybe not. But many were involved in the insane rallys/riots in support of JoePa when everyone in the country outside of Happy Valley was already either uneasy or queasy about him? Many (All?) of those you're hoping to shield from harm benefited from and/or were supported by the cover-up and lack of accountability in the institution and protection of the football program.

Penn State IS football to an awful lot of people - inside and outside that community. I would have no issue with a death penalty - or any other penalty that deprives Penn State of its football program for years.

You are suggesting that the community should be punished for supporting Paterno when the available evidence at that time was that Paterno reported the info about Sandusky to his superiors but didn't do more when he should have? There was no evidence at that point that he actively tried to cover it up.

Or you are suggesting that the entire Penn State community should now be punished because they benefitted from a program that covered up the heinous acts of Sandusky? Heinous acts that they in no way knew of.

Plus, none of this changes the fact that in order to issue the death penalty, there is supposed to be an actual violation of an NCAA rule.

I'm all for punishing the people involved. Take away the schools victories since 1998 so that Paterno is no longer the winningest coach, make his family pay back the 5 million retirement package, tear down the statute, make the university pay out their ass in civil court. I can't, however, support retroactively punishing the football program when all active parties are no longer there to suffer from the punishments.
[Reply]

Originally Posted by dave:
Total lack of institutional control should more than cover it. I, for one, don't think that the NCAA rules book needs to specifically prohibit university coaches from raping little boys in football facility showers and covering it up.

Again, total lack of institutional control only applies to the lack of control of following NCAA rules
[Reply]