Sam Leccia's Debut on hold - Page 2 - Cigar Asylum Cigar Forum

Typically NC's don't hold up too well in court. The last one I remember was an exec. leaving Microsoft for Google. MSFT tried to sue but got no where. I am not sure with the case of Sam though because it is very direct competition, also I would not be surprised if his new cigar was very similar to the Cain and NUB cigars he already made.

I would like to put my self on the top of the list for guys to receive all those cigars that are just going to be sitting in a warehouse somewhere for an indefinite amount of time.
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Originally Posted by hscmit:
non compete clauses are fairly standard in many industries especially when their is a significant investment made by the company into an individual (as in this case)

:-)
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Regarding the 5 year Non-Compete clause, I'm wondering:

Does the clause begin when Leccia started employment with Olivia in or around 2008 (ends in 2013), or when Leccia left the employment of Olivia in or around 2010 (ends in 2015)?

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Originally Posted by MarkinCA:
Regarding the 5 year Non-Compete clause, I'm wondering:

Does the clause begin when Leccia started employment with Olivia in or around 2008 (ends in 2013), or when Leccia left the employment of Olivia in or around 2010 (ends in 2015)?

Assuming it's valid, it's the latter option: 2015.
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Originally Posted by LostAbbott:
Typically NC's don't hold up too well in court. The last one I remember was an exec. leaving Microsoft for Google. MSFT tried to sue but got no where. I am not sure with the case of Sam though because it is very direct competition, also I would not be surprised if his new cigar was very similar to the Cain and NUB cigars he already made.

The fact that Oliva was able to get an injunction means that they were already able to persuade a judge that they have a good chance (legalese = "substantial likelihood") of succeeding in their overall suit to completely enforce the agreement. That's not a guarantee that Oliva will win, but it's a strong indicator.

Also, Sam's Debut line was directly matching up with, at least to some degree, Studio Tobac's NUB Plus plans: the announced Debut vitolas were 5x60, 7x60, and a 7x52 figurado.
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Originally Posted by chippewastud79:
Oliva put a lot of time and money into the creating, promoting and distributing the NuB and Cain line and had the foresight to make someone like Sam the face of it. It seems Sam thought he was going to able to immediately transfer the success given to him by Oliva to his own company. Apparently Oliva had different ideas and knew this when they put the non-compete clause in his contract. If he had left on good terms, would they allow him to compete immediately? :-)

Also remember that Sam was going to need another large cigar company to make, promote and distribute his new line. Again, Oliva probably doesn't want to allow him to transfer the image/success they created for him to another 'competitor' in the industry. Not knowing much about competition amongst the large companies, it may be to prevent him from helping another company or it may be out of spite based on the nature of the split from Oliva. :-)

This was annouced a little while back. Looks like Torano Cigars was/is going to distribute Sam's new cigars.
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So did Sam actually create the blends for NUB and Cain lines?
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Originally Posted by jesseboston81:
Also, Sam's Debut line was directly matching up with, at least to some degree, Studio Tobac's NUB Plus plans: the announced Debut vitolas were 5x60, 7x60, and a 7x52 figurado.

I am thinking this is where his problems lie. If his three sizes are the same as the nub plus sizes then Olivia would have a very good case.
Posted via Mobile Device
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Wow... Thats bad... Hopefully they can settel it down in a good term...
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Originally Posted by LostAbbott:
I am thinking this is where his problems lie. If his three sizes are the same as the nub plus sizes then Olivia would have a very good case.Posted via Mobile Device

For negotiation purposes:

Maybe Leccia could offer up his entire inventory of the above sizes to Olivia, and agree to not create these size vitola' for the next 5 years. In exchange;

Olivia would be asked to drop their law suit/non-compete clause, and allow Leccia to continue forward with his line of cigars, but in different size vitola' other than the size vitola' in question.

Just a thought...

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there's a good way to do this and then there's the way that oliva did it. they could have let sam go to rtda and then settle this for a good portion of his profits for the next 4.5 years and then none of us would be having this discussion
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I knew something had to happen. I didn't see how he was going to just be able to come out with his own line without some sort of agreement with Oliva.
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Originally Posted by area51:
So did Sam actually create the blends for NUB and Cain lines?

No.
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Originally Posted by loki:
i don't get a warm fuzzy feeling from anyone trying to stop someone else from making a living. when you're knowledge and experience is in one area, i don't see how you can limit a person from using that to provide for his family

As a completely objective observer who has never smoked or had any interest in this guy's cigars, I have to agree. Is Oliva truly concerned that Sam Leccia is going to put a dent in their bottom line?

On the other hand, NC clauses are standard for most employment contracts, but 5 years? That's crazy and he probably should not have agreed to it in the first place.
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Originally Posted by JJG:
Is Oliva truly concerned that Sam Leccia is going to put a dent in their bottom line?

Likely not. But remember, Oliva created NUB and Cain and to some extent the image of Sam and he likely didn't leave in an admirable way. It may be purely out of spite by Oliva for Sam thinking he was larger than life when he left. Its all speculation, but they likely wouldn't be trying to blackball him had he left under good terms. :-)
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This is crazy, I have a feeling it may hurt Oliva and help Sam
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Originally Posted by area51:
This is crazy, I have a feeling it may hurt Oliva and help Sam

No. Particularly if Sam has to wait 5 years to work in the industry, by the time he can re-enter the market place the mood of the industry may have changed and not crave the 'rock-and-roll'/'bad boy image' that seems to be so popular of late.

Oliva is one of the most respected/consistent/affordable/well-made/highly rated cigars across the board and Studio Tabac seems to be just another step in the right direction for them. :-)
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Originally Posted by chippewastud79:
No.

yes
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Originally Posted by loki:
yes

no
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At the same time it's not like these sizes are not becoming the norm among cigar manufacturers. As much as some us agree that they will never be our go to sizes these sized sticks do sell very well. I know at my local the larger RGs always sell out first.
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