It certainly does.

Beer is more of an "out of the house" beverage to down with your buddies at the pub.

There are plenty of event beers that are worthy of special praise, but 100's of years of beer culture have cemented its place in alcohol hierarchy.

I had a few beers with a Vegas Robaina custom rolled in my back yard; shorts baseball hat and sun. It was sublime. Would I have enjoyed it as much with Champagne? No way. Would I want to drink beers at more formal setting with a dinner jacket? No at all.

Tell you what. Go to CA Central Valley and open a bar/liquor store without any Bud beer, see how long you'll last (only as long as your bank account keeps you afloat). Someone on top of the thread mentioned "snobbishness factor" of wine drinkers and yet some posts underscore exactly how beer drinkers are more snobbish than wine drinkers. Bud is still the best selling beer in USA last time I checked and whether you or I like it or not, there is obviously an ungodly number of Bud customers out there (how many people do you know who smoke Cremosas?)

I am not saying Bud is great, but it is easily DRINKABLE (although we seem to disagree on this point). Something I won't say about a good number of wines and a good number of cigars (my Cremosa experiment lasted less than an inch, I honestly tried, and I was ready to vomit by then).

If anything, you do have so called "grape snobbishness" with wine drinkers, many who drink Cab won't ever touch anything else, many who drink Pinot Noir won't drink anything else, many who drink Burgundy (Pinot Noir grown in France) won't ever drink Pinot grown outside of Burgundy, etc, etc, etc. But I know few wine drinkers who won't also drink beer.
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Darrell,

Interesting points about movies and wine. I can only say that you keep forgetting who comes up with these scripts in the first place, the so called "intellectual elite" (the rest of us are treated and taken as simpletons who can't ever come up with a thought of our own). Winemakers have a saying, "It takes a lot of beer to make wine", and this is a true statement, I can assure you of that. During crush all the refrigerators are stuffed with beer.

And you really don't want to know true stories about these self appointed Hollywood wine aficionados. I dread every time I have to pour at some of their events, my wife wanted to choke a few (literally) on some occasions. Only about 2% of them would be able to tell a 2BC and Screaming Eagle apart and they are mostly driven by price and points.

See, I am the opposite. After our monthly stated meeting a group of Brothers always go out in our suits to a spot and have drinks. Most of them have Scotch and cocktails. I almost always order beer, typically a nice pint of something off the tap and I am happy as a clam.

I don't feel like drinking beer dressed up is any different than drinking scotch or wine. It's just like cigars, drink what you like and like what you drink.

Of course, that's my :-).

While there are some really bad beers out there, I do see the point you are making. Cigars like Cremosa should not be on the market, I can't think of any BEER that is quite as bad as a Cremosa. Budwesier = Macanudo, most consistant and highest selling in it's class, but very "plain". Natty Ice = Puros Indios. And so on.

The closest I can think of to a Cremosa for a something based on barley, malt, hops and yeast is some of the bad malt liquors like Earthquake or Pit Bull. They are just plain nasty. Go to one of the "40oz Malt Liquor" forums and even those guys bag on that crap. But, malt liquor has a bad rap to begin with, and from even a semi-purist standpoint, it's NOT beer.

(sorry Sancho)

Not sure why you seem to think that I only place Belgian beer in the high end territory, this was just an example of something I may enjoy while someone else may find unpalatable. Same with that Cohiba used as an example of "great cigar" someone posted above. All I can tell you is that I gave up on them BEFORE MOST of this board even started smoking cigars.

What I tried to point out and something that was quickly swept under the rug is TASTE PREFERENCE is ALWAYS SUBJECTIVE and NEVER OBJECTIVE.

Same way it was pointed out that some would rather smoke a Cremosa than drink Pabst (one example). I say, get off those drugs, but then again, it is MY taste preference and it is SUBJECTIVE.

Since you keep making points about "crappy wine", can you at least state what you consider a great wine?

With beer, wine and cigars there are varying levels of participation and commitment.

Jug wine, Budweiser, Macanudo cigars appeal to the masses. There is a reason these are all top sellers in their categories. Their flavor may not appeal to the afficionado but they were not designed for that market

Mid-level wines, Premium beer, $5-10 cigars appeal to those who want a bit more from the product than entry level.

High end wines($100 and up), craft beer and premium cigars are directed towards a very limited market. Not knowing the numbers I would guess less than 15% of market share in any of the three categories.

Of course there are wines, beers and cigars that can crossover between market but for the most part they are meant to sell to a certain consumer.

Snobs are found at each level. Snobbery is not class exclusive.

You mean USA.

Great post and a great point.

Just to underscore it, are posters on this board who make it a point of saying they "only smoke CCs" snobs? Or do they simply smoke what they like?

Their are some of both on this board.

It's easy to justify the cost of anything you like, want, and enjoy so I really don't think it's an issue of beer vs. wine class-wise or anything else...sometimes I want a glass of wine, sometimes a beer, and sometime hard liquor...it's whatever you're in the mood for...unless you drink that cheap-a$$ bitter Budweiser (like Marie's sister-in-law who does a 6-pack a day), then it's class Image...

14 bucks for a 6 pack of world class beer - you can get a nice bottle of wine for 14 bucks, but it won't be world class.

Smoke what you like and drink what you like.

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what exactly is "world class"? and who gets to decide that ?:-)

This post gets it

This post doesn't:-)


My question has nothing to do with drinking what you like and liking what you drink, it has to do with why people are so heisitant to pay for great beer, but have no problem with paying far more money for wine.

If people truly enjoy drinking beers like Bud, they should by all means drink them. It just leaves more of the hard to find craft beers for the rest of us, :-)

Vic, I do not agree with your "This post doesn't" POV. Same way you framed the question of "why not..." I can also ask, Why do cigar smokers, in general, have no issue paying $15-20 PER CIGAR (and more in some cases) when they will also tell you that spending that same sum on a bottle of wine is stupid?

Since taste is subjective (and there is no argument on this point, just let me know what you think of cow tongue aspic), why do you simply assume that what is great beer to you simply MUST be great beer for everyone else? Isn't this snobbish and elitist point of view, the point of contention in your original post?

You still didn't answer my question as to what is a great bottle of wine to YOU?

mmmmm cow tongue aspic....

Can I get that on dark rye with coarse brown mustard and sliced tomatoes and extra pickles on the side?

I humbly apologize for comparing Anheuser-Busch products to Cremosas. Obviously Budweiser is a huge seller, and appeals to a huge market. I might opine it appeals to people who enjoy the taste of goat urine, but that is not the point. :-)

Honestly, I get the point you are making, and while I don't necessarily agree, I do see where you are coming from Greg,

My point, exactly, Sir.


I wonder if the OP would agree with you and me on this, I actually bet most here would consider this inedible. So, by the OP's definition, we must be food snobs? Or wait, maybe he is since this is not world class food?

I am really disappointed that someone could make an accusation of "snobbery" while displaying all the signs of it himself. Have no idea how subjective taste is all of a sudden equated to objective (if HE likes it, then it MUST be world class). I just don't get this "logic".

TASTE PREFERENCE IS SUBJECTIVE

I absolutely agree that taste is subjective in every sense, but I still don't think that the point Vic is trying to make in the OP s what is now being debated.

The question is why would someone hesitate to spend $14 on a high end 6-pack of beer but gladly shell that out for a low end bottle of wine?

This thread is so out of control lol. I'll add my :-)

I love wine and I love beer, I go to wine festivals and I go to beer festivals, and I have a wine rack full of Virginia wines and a fridge full of beer. I don't think I own a bottle of wine right now that cost more than $25, but I have sampled everything I have at Virginia wineries and bought ones that I like.

It's a very simple answer for me about why I buy the wine, I enjoy it. Beer and wine are different after all and I drink whatever I'm in the mood for. I think that is justification enough, people do it because they like the taste/experience.

A side note here, being a cheaply priced wine doesn't mean it's bad....though I will say it is easier for me to find something cheap that I like if I go to different wineries and sample rather than buying something blind off the shelf.

If your interested, the weirdest bottle of wine I own had Jalapenos put in the barrel while fermenting, it definitely picked up the flavor. I don't know if I will ever drink it, but if the mood strikes.....:-) . And no I usually don't go for the gimmicky wines, I like more traditional blends, but I couldn't pass that up.