Add....I would not say that the Broncos are at the apex of their rebuilding....they fired their coach last year....:-)

They last won the AFC West in '05....or three years prior to the Panthers winning their last Division Championship... I wouldn't say they are any further ahead of pace than the Panthers....AND since they didn't get a franchise quarterback in the draft...they are further behind.

It is the curse of the Snake....I'll say it again and again... Should have never benched Jake to get that douchenozzle Cutler on the field.... Jake, like Tebow, was a winner....he was also a quarterback, which was nice....:-)
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Let me preface this by saying that I hold no ill will towards the guy. In fact, I think it's unfortunate that some people dislike/bash him simply because of his Faith and how he chooses to live his life.

Personal feelings aside, he's not (right now) a decent starting NFL quarterback. Did he win Sunday? Sure. Only completing 50% of your passes when you regularly faced NINE men in the box AND your offensive line gave you all day to throw? There's not a quarterback in the NFL, starting or reserve, who wouldn't have found success.

I do wish him the best, though and hope he can prove his nay-sayers wrong.
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Spoken like a man who rode Newton to a Fantasy Football Championship game appearance...:-)
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Tebow isn't responsible for his religion being on stage, he's just doing his thing. The media is making it a big deal. I can't count the number of professional athletes that make some sort of gesture towards the sky every time they make a great play, score a run or touchdown, win a race etc., or thank God or Jesus when they get interviewed. No one makes a fuss about that. Tebow himself has said that he doesn't believe God gives him any advantage in a game but he uses every opportunity the media gives him to profess his faith. His skills and abilities are valid topics for debate but his religion shouldn't be a part of it since it's the media constantly pushing that into the limelight.

:-)
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I am part of the same graduating class as Tebow at the University of Florida so naturally I've been aboard the Tebow bandwagon since he was a freshmen coming off the bench to help us win a national title against Ohio $tate in '06. I can tell you this, watching every one of his games at UF he could throw the ball in college, especially the deep ball to other future NFL standouts like Percy Harvin, David Nelson or Aaron Hernandez. Look up some of his stats even against great SEC defenses. What made him a winner as well was an extremely low turnover rate, from fumbles or INTs which he has continued in the NFL.

You have to keep things in perspective. He had no off-season to work on his play, had no rapport with the 1st string offense since he was not the starter, its his second coaching staff in as many years and most importantly he is a young QB who is improving rapidly. It is very rare that a rookie QB like Newton and Dalton do so well and I think that has slanted people's analysis of Tebow. Also, the Denver receiving corps is one of the worst in the league, dropping an above average number of balls and often failing to get open. As for his statistical inaccuracy, Denver runs the ball on 1st and 2nd down so frequently that he often passes the ball on 3rd and long, which every NFL QB struggles with. Moreover, Tebow passed so well at Florida because he is at his best in a fast paced system to establish a rhythm.

Can he continue to improve and succeed? He's got two all-world qualities that allow me to believe 100% that he can and both that a guy like Scam Newton doesn't have: incredible work ethic and leadership. Look at how fast he's improved already. Not saying that Newton wont' continue to succeed, but Tebow's work ethic and leadership are light years above Newton. His speech at halftime of the '08 National Title game is a perfect example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-qodBTlMtA

As for his evangelical religion, I don't think anyone can argue that his sincere belief in it has kept him grounded, humble, and able to shake off criticism which has been a huge benefit for him this season. I also think it's the biggest motivation behind his work ethic and leadership.

As a side note, its interesting that if you followed SEC football, as Brad can tell ya, Tebow mania is old news lol.

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This. :-)
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You got me. Tebow played in 14 games, I was just trying to conserve words. Much like not setting his stats against Newton's.
But Tebow in 14 games went 126/271 (46.5%) for 1,290 yards, 12 td's and 6 interceptions. He rushed 122 times for 660 yards, averaging 5.4 yards per carry with 6 td's and 6 fumbles, 2 lost.

Newton in 16 games went 310/517 for 60%, 4,051 yards, 21 td's and 17 interceptions.
He rushed 126 times for 706 yards and 14 td's. 5.6 yds per carry.
That's a pretty gaping distance, even if it's not apples to apples.

Maybe I should have said Denver expected to be at the top of their game last year. Hence the gone coach. They had all the pieces in place and are much intact.
Carolina was gutted the last two years and are in start-over mode.

Agreed on Plummer. He may not have been lighting the world on fire, but iirc they were like 7-3 when they handed the ball to Cutler. I mean really?
I don't remember the fans screaming for Cutler like they were for Tebow, but I don't follow Denver that close.

Denver loves their football, they're an awesome football town with a tremendous legacy. They outspent Carolina 125 million to 73 million this year. That payroll suggests they've spent everything but the kitchen sink on that club they're fielding, while just the opposite for Carolina.
That pretty much spells apex.
Dallas had the highest payroll at 137 million, so that kind of puts it in perspective. Tampa Bay was the lowest at 60 million.
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I'd kiss him on the mouth. :-)

And I absolutely LOVE how Tim Tebow expresses his Faith. I think he's an great human being. I just think he's a mediocre qb, for now.
I can't wait to see what he looks like next year after Elway has his way with him, I've said it earlier in this thread and have said it all year long. He definately suffered from the lockout.
His work ethic being what it is and Elway's being the same, there has to be a huge improvement in that club as a whole, not only from Tebow.
They need some good stick-em, too. :-)
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He's a Gator so I love him!!!
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It seems that all of the dislike of Tebow is based on his religion but several players who have been with him for the season say that this is the way that he lives his like and it is not an act. He won a Heisman, he has not embarrassed his team and he got the team into the playoffs and won a game. I will give him a pass and hope that he plays well but doesn't win against the Pats. It seems that his faith is what kills most people but I have seen a general anti-Christian bias on several boards, not just this one which is why I do not spend as much time on the boards as I used to.
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I don't care about his religion, I don't have a real problem with it either.
I look at him as a football player and have not seen enough to make up my opinion of him as a pro football player yet.
He has added much entertainment to football this season though.
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FYI this thread motivated me to do a Tebowing Contest:

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=52581

:-)
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Ugh, don't get me started on that. No one here I can remember was ever calling for Cutler. The person that wanted him in there was Mike Shanahan. He didn't like Jake Plummer because Plummer wouldn't always listen to him and would change plays a lot and drove Shanahan nuts.
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There is just about enough religion discussion here to get this shut down.
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He played the best game of his life last week...unfortunately it was against the Steelers. I really don't know what will come of him in the future. He may have a big game against the Pats too...especially since he torched the #1 "D" in the league last week and now he's going up against the last ranked "D." Should be interesting...

I wish him no ill will but don't think all the hype will last...just too awkward of a delivery and once defenses figure out their college style of playing offense I think things will be a bit different.
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Exactly. There were more photographers in the end zone after Tebow's rushing TD than there were players. :-)
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Cam a pretty boy who can't win?:-) The Panthers didn't lose games b/c of their offense. Defense and ST took a pounding this year, which is why they lost games.
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Welcome to John Fox football.:-)
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In the immortal words of Charlie Sheen: "Winning" !!

Not a fan though.
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He definitely played better games in college and the NFL than last weekend. :-)
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