Hopefully some folks are able to help :-)

Some background:

-I live in a condo so i don't need anything TOO crazy
-Quality sound is important to me, but unfortunately money is more important.
-I am interested in something that has HDMI inputs because I have Computer, PS3, HDPVR, and my TV only has 2 HDMI inputs.

So yesterday i bought this HTIB: http://www.visions.ca/catalogue/cate...96&sku=HTS3400

I am thinking of returning it. It's Decent for a condo, but i don't know if the sound quality is even as good as my previous SONY HTIB.

Problem is, for a complete package, im not sure if i can afford separate components.

I don't know what to do and am looking for guidance
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I'm by no means an expert, but set up my first surround sound system about a year ago with the following and have been happy:

For speakers, I went with the Energy Take 5 fronts, rears and center channel (Amazon link with reviews) and the sound has been great.

I got a Klipsch 10-inch powered subwoofer and an Onkyo receiver (don't recall model number right now) with HDMI pass-through, which was something I needed, but was surprised to see not all of them had. Pass-through lets you watch TV without the surround sound on and through the TV's speakers, even though the HDMI goes from the cable box into the DVR and then into the receiver before going out to the TV. Quite a few of the other budget receivers I looked at didn't offer it, so you had to have the receiver on at all times to watch TV.

There's an overwhelming amount of information out there, but take your time and you'll find something you really like! :-)
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http://www.avsforum.com/
the gurus site for anything AV related.
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:-)AVS is the best place to get AV advice. You will probably get much more bang for your buck with new speakers than a new receiver, but then you don't get HDMI inputs... Some options:

1. Buy a nice receiver that has the features you want. Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer all have pretty decent offerings in your price range. In addition to HDMI, you may gain some cool features like internet radio, network streaming from your PC, Pandora, etc. Then you can upgrade your speakers when you have a little more cash. Excellent speaker deals pop up on craigslist if you are patient...

2. Spend your money on speakers. This is where you will get the greatest improvement in sound quality. Then get an inexpensive HDMI switch from monoprice. You run the HDMI video to your display through the switch and audio to the receiver via optical or coax. This is what I did for a couple years before upgrading my AVR. Actually, I'm sure I still have that switch in a drawer somewhere and you are welcome to it if you decide to go that direction.
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I tried an HDMI switch, and it was trouble, probably because it was a cheapy one, but i kind of like the idea of being able to control everything from the receiver, and then having sound through the tv or the stereo if i want.

With this Pass-through - the onkyo HSIB i will be returning let me listen to sound through my tv, but i had to fiddle with settings to go back and forth, it was annoying. Does this pass-through make it easier?
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oh, and if you need any cables... I really like this site. Great service, products, prices.
www.bluejeanscable.com
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With mine, if the receiver is off, it lets the video/sound from the cable box pass through the receiver to the TV without having to do anything manually. And if I'm watching something, and decide I want surround, I turn the receiver on and it automatically channels the sound through the surround speakers and cuts the sound from the TV speakers. Same if I shut the receiver off -- it channels the sound to the TV speakers automatically.

Some receivers I looked at required you to power on the receiver to be able to watch TV at all if the receiver was hooked up between the cable box and the TV.
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Pass-through should do just what you want, and there is no doubt it's nice to have one component doing all of your switching and processing.

Looking at the online reviews and features, it looks like a nice, up to date system with a pretty good feature set. Lots of good info and reviews at newegg.com. And only 300 bones shipped!

On my Onkyo, I had to set TV Audio to "AUTO" so that every time I turn on the AVR, it turns TV Audio (to the TV) off and plays through the AVR. When I turn off the AVR, it turns TV Audio back on and I hear sound from the TV speakers. I assume that's how the 3400 works.
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i would like it to work without having to power on the receiver. However all of the ones i looked at, when i looked at features and did search (ctrl-f) i couldn't find "pass-through" or "pass through"
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My manual says nothing about this feature either. I learned of it on AVS. To enable pass through, on mine, you have to enable HDMI Control (HDMI-CEC). I also have to set TV Audio to AUTO, so it doesn't pass audio to the TV when the AVR is turned on. It's not a very elegant implementation of CEC, and there are a few glitches here and there.
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i bought this receiver http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...ers/VSX-1021-K

and these speakers http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/t...x.php?s=tsi300

and this surround set http://www.visions.ca/catalogue/cate...rchText=tl1600

i havent hooked any speakers up yet just the amp and finally figured out how to have the sound go THROUGH to my tv, but i cant figure out how to make it work while the amp is off, cuz if i turn it off everything goes off (my tv) but i dont want it to be on 24/7 just to watch tv, and i dont need like..a cooking show in surround lol
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I'm not by any means an expert in this - I have a cheapy HTIB set up. My question to you would be why you want to ever switch the surround sound off. Everything sounds better to me in surround. Maybe to listen to music through the system? I don't do that, so maybe that's what I'm missing here.
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Again, if i just want to watch a tv show, a lot of tv shows don't need surround. If i'm watching a hockey game or something it's nice, but when i'm watching a cooking show, i don't need to see some chick cutting up carrots in 7.2, it sounds just fine on the tv, and if i were to spend a lot of time watching tv, my amp needn't be on just to watch tv
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The pass through is set up with KURO LINK, which is just what Pioneer calls HDMI-CEC. Check your manual chapter 8 for how to set it up.

If I were you, I would skip the 5.1 surround speakers you bought and just build a good quality 5.1 system around the TSi fronts. When watching movies, a good center channel speaker is critical. Short of that, you can set your receiver up for a "pantom center" where the front speakers play the center content. If you pick up a CS10 center to match your fronts, you will find dialog will be much better in movies. Add a good 10 or 12 inch sub and some inexpensive surround speakers and you will be set for about the same money.

BTW, there is a dedicated 1021K owners thread on AVS forum.
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Thx Eric,

Unfortunately the CS10 is a really big centre, and i don't have the room for it.

I've done some research on the Pioneer HDMI Standby Pass Through, and all components you're wanting to pass through TO need to be controllable by HDMI, and my 3 or 4 year old Sharp Aquos is not. List of compatible devices on Pioneer's site http://pioneer.jp/homeav/support/hdmi_cec/

The other thing i'm not loving about this receiver, is that it only has 1 year warranty. The Pioneer elites have 3 (they're a lot more money tho) and all the Onkyos/HKs have 2. So i may return/exchange for something else.

The AVS forum is where i did a lot of my research :-)

I live in a small condo, and don't need anything crazy, although i would like to have good quality. Unfortunately, money is an issue, so i can't just buy whatever i'd like.

Please keep the suggestions coming if you have more, i appreciate them

p.s. i will hook up the speakers tonight and see how i like the sound
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As GL stated speakers are the things you can "hear" the biggest differences in. Hard for most to hear the differences between similarly powered amps.

A/B ing, used to be the best way to choose your preferred speakers. What people like in speakers can be subjective and very personal. Unfortunately, its almost impossible to stand in front of two complete systems and do the a/b back and forth on the same music/video.

AV systems/amplifiers have specifications:

Rated wattage output continuous. (not peak) In the stereo days it was per channel (2) with a frequency range - say 20-20,000 with a Total harmonic distortion %. Now the mfgs like to play fast and loose with things but if you dig you can ususally find them. The rest in all interoperability things which becomes sepcific to what you are using the system for.... TV, TV and MP3, DVD, remote speakers, Sat radio, etc. Easy to end up spending 2-3 times as much as you did just for the Receiver.

Once you get these things home you either like or dont like them. If you like the sound ... be happy with it. At the price point you bought at it's hard to get pickey with things. If it does all the interoperability things you want and sounds good... to you, well you are good to go.



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Thx Dave,

In my case ignorance is bliss. I'm no audiophile, and never will be. If it sounds good, i WILL be happy. I don't get into the whole highs-lows, wattage etc whatever.

Only thing is the 1 year warranty on the amp, need to consider that.
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If you can't fit the bigger center, try setting your AVR for no center speaker, aka "phantom center". I suspect dialog will be much improved through your towers than the little center speaker.

I don't have a pioneer, so I'm not sure if there is a workaround for the pass through issue. Many AVR's seem to have problems with pass-through and HDMI-CEC, so Pioneer is not alone in this. It seems all AVRs have their quirks.
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there isnt a workaround as far as keeping hdmi -> reciever -> tv unfortunately.

I think i shall return it tmrw and buy the denon avr1912 - probably
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omg buddy, i hooked up those tower fronts, and they sound EPIC listening to music, even with the centre and sub from the 5.1 box set, everything sounds soo nice. I know there is way better sh1t, but if ignorance is bliss, i'm one happy mother trucker :-)
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